Advice on second-hand faulty car

tiggybobbz

Hi all, 

I am in need of some advice, end of January I purchased a second-hand VW POLO 2012 from a dealership that is now faulty. I noticed a noise within 2 weeks of owning the car and reported to the dealership, I then had a full diagnostic test done at a separate garage on the car to see if it was worth the £7,000 I paid for it. Results came back and the steering was misaligned, there were 2 warning lights that cannot be reset, the dust covers needed replacing and especially the cambelt was worn and needed replacing ASAP. I sent this over to the dealership and after months of back and fourth and a few visits, nearly none of the issues are fixed and it has failed it's MOT. The main issues on the MOT report are the warning lights that could be in relation to the ABS and broken/worn drop link dust covers. I don't really know much about cars but I am now without a car to drive as it is dangerous. I have done mediation with them already with the AA and they at most have offered me a refund with a 0.50p deduction per mile, I have only done under 4,000 miles but 300 of them were driving back and fourth to the dealership. I have read that dealerships are entitled to a deduction based on the mileage but loosing about £2,000 on a £7,000 car that is riddled with faults that I reported straight away does not seem right. I have been advised to take them to small claims but afraid as they have offered me a partial refund I will not win my case. Some other things to mention are that I had to ask multiple times for a copy on the invoice and when it was eventually sent over it was after I had first reported the issues with the car, and it had a note about the the cambelt needing replacing as advice. It is an import so I have been told the warning lights can only be fixed by a VW branch. Any advice on my rights or small claims would be greatly appreciated, or if anyone has been through something similar. 

Wonka_2

To start with ‘not knowing much about cars’ isn’t a brilliant defence but we’ll move past that

What sort of ‘dealer’ was it from and how did you pay ? Any warranty documentation/guarantee ? £7k seems high for a imported 2012 Polo but depends where imported from and the model.   

What checks/due diligence were carried out pre-purchase ? Did it not have a recent full MOT ? 

Did the dash lights only remain on after the diagnostic test or had they been on since purchase ? 

TBH you’d be losing £2k if you sold now anyway but the issue is you didn’t plan to

Given you’ve been through mediation then you’re either court or, if you paid any of it by credit card or on a finance agreement then you bring them into the equation 

born_again

What's the history on previous MOT's

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

 The main issues on the MOT report are the warning lights that could be in relation to the ABS and broken/worn drop link dust covers

ABS warning light could be as simple as a sensor or sensor ring. Not expensive
Drop links again not expensive.
TBH, would be expected on a 12 year old car as parts that do wear out.
So what did MOT garage quote to fix?

1000 miles a month is above average mileage. 
The 50p a mile is a bit on the high side. 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/used-prices/Volkswagen/Polo/2012/

Ouch... Unless this was some super special model. 

Worry would be that dealer will simply shut up shop if you go down the small claims route.

HillStreetBlues

tiggybobbz said:

Hi all, 

I am in need of some advice, end of January I purchased a second-hand VW POLO 2012 from a dealership that is now faulty. I noticed a noise within 2 weeks of owning the car and reported to the dealership,

How did you you report it, and what was their reply?

Mr.Generous

I'd love to know how they inspected the cambelt and how they knew it was worn. Presumably they reported the length and thickness of the belt fitted and compared it to the spec, or they photographed obvious physical damage?

Or it could be they looked at the cambelt mileage change schedule and said it needs changing. Be prepared for some difficulty proving anything like that, quite a bit of work to inspect a cambelt. A diagnostic check would reveal nothing about a cam belt.

tacpot12

If you have home insurance, check to see if you have Legal Expenses Cover. If you do, you should call the Legal helpline provided by your insurer before doing anything else. They will be able to advise you on whether to go to court, and might represent you at court. 

I agree that their offer of a refund is too low. If they took the car back into stock and sold it again without the faults, they would not be pricing it at £5,000. I would say that the risk of a court denying your claim because you didn't accept what they decide is a fair offer is close to zero. They will either order that the dealer pays you what they have already offered or they pay you a higher amount. I would expect that the reduction for use that the court order will be pretty low as you had problems more or less immediately and the faults are severe. The dealer should have done a much better job fixing them. I think you should get a refund of around £6250.

tiggybobbz

Wonka_2 said:

To start with ‘not knowing much about cars’ isn’t a brilliant defence but we’ll move past that

What sort of ‘dealer’ was it from and how did you pay ? Any warranty documentation/guarantee ? £7k seems high for a imported 2012 Polo but depends where imported from and the model.   

What checks/due diligence were carried out pre-purchase ? Did it not have a recent full MOT ? 

Did the dash lights only remain on after the diagnostic test or had they been on since purchase ? 

TBH you’d be losing £2k if you sold now anyway but the issue is you didn’t plan to

Given you’ve been through mediation then you’re either court or, if you paid any of it by credit card or on a finance agreement then you bring them into the equation 

I paid with a debit card and the dealership is a private family run company. They have provided me with a copy of the warranty but it is literally 10 bullet points of things they won't fix and in now way sets out any terms and conditions. I have asked for proper documentation but this is all they have been able to send. It is an import from Japan and this is confirmed with the service history being in Japanese. I completed a full check, checked an online report to ensure it has not been in any accidents, MOT check, etc, no issues were noted. The MOT has since run out and failed. 

They have been on since purchase but I was told by the dealership they will either go away with time or they will fix them which has not happened. 

tiggybobbz

born_again said:

What's the history on previous MOT's

 The main issues on the MOT report are the warning lights that could be in relation to the ABS and broken/worn drop link dust covers

ABS warning light could be as simple as a sensor or sensor ring. Not expensive
Drop links again not expensive.
TBH, would be expected on a 12 year old car as parts that do wear out.
So what did MOT garage quote to fix?

1000 miles a month is above average mileage. 
The 50p a mile is a bit on the high side. 

Ouch... Unless this was some super special model. 

Worry would be that dealer will simply shut up shop if you go down the small claims route.

The garage we had the MOT done at are unable to do the required testing and resolution for the warning lights as it is an import and have been told if anyone can do it will be the VW branch about an hour away from us. They can physical the other things wrong with it but the main issue is we have spent so much on this car already and it is not proving very reliable. 

tiggybobbz

HillStreetBlues said:

tiggybobbz said:

Hi all, 

I am in need of some advice, end of January I purchased a second-hand VW POLO 2012 from a dealership that is now faulty. I noticed a noise within 2 weeks of owning the car and reported to the dealership,

How did you you report it, and what was their reply?

I reported by phone and email, they have denied any responsibility but now I have mentioned legal action they have begun to start working with me. The last we spoke they offered a refund but minus 0.45p per mile driven which leaves me about 1,700 out of pocket. 

tiggybobbz

Mr.Generous said:

I'd love to know how they inspected the cambelt and how they knew it was worn. Presumably they reported the length and thickness of the belt fitted and compared it to the spec, or they photographed obvious physical damage?

Or it could be they looked at the cambelt mileage change schedule and said it needs changing. Be prepared for some difficulty proving anything like that, quite a bit of work to inspect a cambelt. A diagnostic check would reveal nothing about a cam belt.

I only know they are aware of the issue with the cambelt as they noted on the invoice only after I had raised my issues with them. No specific information or images just a note saying Advice - Cambelt may need replacing. 

I became aware of the issue due to the noise the car was making, took it to a local garage and they confirmed the chain is worn likely due to the previous owners not taking care of the oil.

tiggybobbz

tacpot12 said:

If you have home insurance, check to see if you have Legal Expenses Cover. If you do, you should call the Legal helpline provided by your insurer before doing anything else. They will be able to advise you on whether to go to court, and might represent you at court. 

I agree that their offer of a refund is too low. If they took the car back into stock and sold it again without the faults, they would not be pricing it at £5,000. I would say that the risk of a court denying your claim because you didn't accept what they decide is a fair offer is close to zero. They will either order that the dealer pays you what they have already offered or they pay you a higher amount. I would expect that the reduction for use that the court order will be pretty low as you had problems more or less immediately and the faults are severe. The dealer should have done a much better job fixing them. I think you should get a refund of around £6250.

I do not have home insurance but have been in touch with a solicitor to book an appointment to see if this is worth taking to court. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter, it is reassuring for an outsiders opinion on this situation.