Contactless use ATM

WillPS

HillStreetBlues said:

WillPS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

WillPS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

WillPS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

531063 said:

As said in Spain they have contactless ATM's but you do have to input your pin 1st

I personally wouldn't describe that as contactless.

on what basis?

On the basis you need to make contact  by entering your PIN

... so imagine you didn't need to enter your PIN, how would you tell the ATM what service you require (and the amount in the case of a withdrawal)?

Contactless refers to the method the card communicates with the terminal. You've inferred something beyond that for some reason, but that isn't correct.

As another example, there are contactless-only payment terminals (with no chip reader) which will prompt you for a PIN if the card requires it. Still contactless if your card isn't being physically read.

If all you do is wave the card and that's it then it's 100% contactless, if you wave your card but have to enter the pin 50% of the process is contactless, if you have to put the card into a machine and enter PIN then 0%  is contactless  as clearly there is a difference between them.
In the case of the ATM it depends on what 50% you look at.

So it'd only be "contactless" if you didn't have to touch it at all?

What would you expect the ATM to even do? Spit out a balance slip? Dispense £50 (like the very early days of cash dispensers)?

I'm not sure you've thought this definition of yours though.

All I've talked about is the PIN and that part not being contactless. Just to move the goalposts back they were, I have never said that everything needs to be contactless.
If they they removed the need for a PIN then I would call that contactless, they could do that if they wanted, but they block it.

No, to put the goalposts back where they were you said you wouldn't describe the action of holding a card near a reader to be contactless, on the grounds that the device has to be made contact with in order to complete the transaction. My challenge to you is that would remain the case regardless of the need to enter a PIN, so there's no way it could possibly be contactless.

The reading of the card absolutely is contactless - regardless of if another button has to be pressed (also true in shops where they try to push a charity donation on you, or restaurants with tips etc etc).

WillPS

Rob5342 said:

TheBanker said:

The incentive for the banks to develop this is they won't need to issue physical cards any more. Just a virtual card that can be added to your Google/Apple wallet. That would save a huge amount of money and also get them some 'green' credentials for reducing plastic use. 

I see cards becoming like chequebooks in the next few years - the physical card will be optional, issued on request rather than automatically. But before that would be accepted by customers there needs to be a solution to withdrawing cash. 

I can see that happening too. I use my phone for everything I can but I never like to rely on it 100% in case the battery dies or I drop it. I always keep my debit csrd in a seperatr pocket, i put tickets and boarding passes etc in Google Wallet but i always have a printed version on me. 

I doubt this, personally. It's telling that fintechs make a big deal of their physical payment card designs, with bold colours designed to catch the eye.

NewDay are the only contenders offering one fully cardless option - Bip. Even though they're clearly able to offer a card-free experience, for all their other products they still insist on sending a card; there's no option to opt out.

There are a couple of other fintech/emoney type offerings where the debit card is an optional extra, but in my experience even these are keen to get you to order a physical card.

HillStreetBlues

WillPS said:

No, to put the goalposts back where they were you said you wouldn't describe the action of holding a card near a reader to be contactless, on the grounds that the device has to be made contact with in order to complete the transaction. My challenge to you is that would remain the case regardless of the need to enter a PIN, so there's no way it could possibly be contactless.

.

You're now making stuff up, I never said that, but if you feel I did then feel free to supply a link.

WillPS

HillStreetBlues said:

WillPS said:

No, to put the goalposts back where they were you said you wouldn't describe the action of holding a card near a reader to be contactless, on the grounds that the device has to be made contact with in order to complete the transaction. My challenge to you is that would remain the case regardless of the need to enter a PIN, so there's no way it could possibly be contactless.

.

You're now making stuff up, I never said that, but if you feel I did then feel free to supply a link.

It's all in the quote pyramid you're replying to - specifically these two posts:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80919319/#Comment_80919319

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80921528/#Comment_80921528

Feel free to correct the record.

HillStreetBlues

WillPS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

WillPS said:

No, to put the goalposts back where they were you said you wouldn't describe the action of holding a card near a reader to be contactless, on the grounds that the device has to be made contact with in order to complete the transaction. My challenge to you is that would remain the case regardless of the need to enter a PIN, so there's no way it could possibly be contactless.

.

You're now making stuff up, I never said that, but if you feel I did then feel free to supply a link.

It's all in the quote pyramid you're replying to - specifically these two posts:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80919319/#Comment_80919319

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80921528/#Comment_80921528

Feel free to correct the record.

Link one

HillStreetBlues said:

531063 said:

As said in Spain they have contactless ATM's but you do have to input your pin 1st

I personally wouldn't describe that as contactless.

Nothing about holding a card near a machine,  my claim is having to enter a PIN means it's not contactless. I've emboldened it to help you.

Link two

HillStreetBlues said:

If all you do is wave the card and that's it then it's 100% contactless, if you wave your card but have to enter the pin 50% of the process is contactless, if you have to put the card into a machine and enter PIN then 0%  is contactless  as clearly there is a difference between them.
In the case of the ATM it depends on what 50% you look at.

I've emboldened again to help.
So although I clearly stated that just waving a card is 100% contactless,  you have somehow come up with "you said you wouldn't describe the action of holding a card near a reader to be contactless"

Can't see the point in continuing, I just had to correct your false claim. I don't mind being wrong, you don't have to agree with my POV, but find it sad when someone just can't admit they made a mistake when it's pointed out that they misquoted someone.

WillPS

A completely contactless ATM, as in you don't need to touch it, is not a thing, nor is it likely to be.

A contactless ATM is provably already a thing tho, even though you still have to touch it in order to complete the transaction - just as you occasionally will have to enter your PIN or press other things on other contactless card reading terminals.

Contactless does not mean "no need for PIN", that might be something you expect but it isn't the case. It just means the card is read using NFC technology.

WillPS

The NatWest in Nottingham has had its exterior cash machines replaced with new units with a radically different layout to every other machine I've seen - the screen is huge, and the keypad is off to the right beside the card slot. There's also a contactless reader on the machine but it doesn't appear to be enabled yet - at least waving my RBS debit card around it did nothing.

Rob5342

WillPS said:

A completely contactless ATM, as in you don't need to touch it, is not a thing, nor is it likely to be.

We aren't all that far from it. With Natwest you can request cash in the app and it gives you a code to enter on a cash machine. All it meeds to be completely contactless is to have some way for the machine to resd the code from the phone, maybe a QR code on the app that the machine reads with its camera. 

https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/banking-from-home/how-to-use-the-mobile-app/what-is-get-cash-and-how-do-i-use-it.html

WillPS

Rob5342 said:

WillPS said:

A completely contactless ATM, as in you don't need to touch it, is not a thing, nor is it likely to be.

We aren't all that far from it. With Natwest you can request cash in the app and it gives you a code to enter on a cash machine. All it meeds to be completely contactless is to have some way for the machine to resd the code from the phone, maybe a QR code on the app that the machine reads with its camera. 

https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/banking-from-home/how-to-use-the-mobile-app/what-is-get-cash-and-how-do-i-use-it.html

And a way to initiate the procedure on the machine without pressing 'enter'. It's not going to happen, frankly.

If NatWest enable these contactless card readers and support Google/Apple Pay with it, then it's more likely 'Get Cash' will be binned IMHO, as that then becomes the solution to the 'getting cash without debit card' problem.

Rob5342

You could initiate it just by tapping the phone on the contactless reader on the machine, or waving the QR code in front of the camera. I'm not sure if that will happen or not but it's not a lot different to buying your ticket on the trainline app and then holding the QR code in front of the scanner.