Not allowed access to remove my motorcycles to fetch them from my family home :-(

TELLIT01

The OP refers to 'bikes' are these motorbikes or pedal cycles?  If motorbikes just make sure they have the relevant V5s with them when they go to retrieve them.  If the brother calls the police that will show they are the property of the OP.

Sea_Shell

I assume these are pushbikes.   They've been in the shed unneeded for 20 years.   How much are they worth, realistically?    High spec or bog standard? 

It is really worth the aggro to get them back?   Why now?

What is due to happen to the house,  after mum passes?

If you're due to inherit a share,  it sounds like you'll have more problems than a couple of bikes.   Sadly. 

elsien

kempiejon said:

Well you've not really needed the bikes for 20 years so it doesn't sound to me like they are the real problem.  I think the fear of what the cops might do is unwarranted but forceful or deceitful possession of the bikes is misplaced focus.

Sounds like mum's in a bind and you're frustrated. As mum needs more care you'll find yourself cut off from her. Does this sound like coercive control? X decides who mum sees when and where, and mum capitulates. Perhaps there's an organisation that can help? This might be escalated to a safeguarding issue and if not social services I know Age Concern would be a place to get external help.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/cymru/our-work/safeguarding/what-is-adult-safeguarding/

This. If mum is no longer able to come out to meet you, what then? Do you lose contact? 

Nobbie1967

Does your mother ever go for hospital treatment? Assuming your sibling takes them this might be an idea time to retrieve your bikes. Need to have the right tools all ready to make the job as quick as possible as you don’t really want to still be there when they come back. Maybe enlist the help of a friend to speed things up. Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

giraffe69

Sea_Shell said:

I assume these are pushbikes.   

OP says in the title of the thread that these are motorbikes.

vacheron

Do you have any evidence to prove that X acknowledges that the bikes are yours. Say a text asking if "I can come and collect MY bikes" and a reply saying "No you can't".... but not contesting ownership?

If not, it might be worth orchestrating such a conversation so that you at least have evidence that you have requested to retrieve your property and been denied. 

Theft is defined by section 1 of the Theft Act 1968 as "The dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it".

You could then confidently inform X of this and that while you don't want to get the police involved and criminal charges raised against them (for the sake of your mum), you will be left with no option should their actions continue.

Sea_Shell

giraffe69 said:

Sea_Shell said:

I assume these are pushbikes.   

OP says in the title of the thread that these are motorbikes.

How did i miss that?   Has the title been edited?   Anyway...

So, i assume op has the log books, in their name, for said bikes.

I realise that these dont prove ownership,  but it would be substantial evidence towards proving ownership,  unless anyone else has more convincing proof.  Evidence of gift etc.

My other comments stand, regards value vs. hassle.

ThisIsWeird

Value, and principle.

Yes, the latter is often abused as a reason to act, but assuming what we are being told is a largely accurate account, then it looks as tho' X needs tackling for more than just these bikes. If X gets away with something as bizarre and straight-forward as scuppering the OP's wish to have their bikes back, then lawd knows what else is going on. 

It sounds like quite a large degree of 'control' is being wielded, and I cannot think of a good reason why they'd be doing this.

I think Vacheron's post is useful - you need evidence, evidence, and then - ideally - more evidence.

Give X enough rope.

Greguk123

ThisIsWeird said:

That is a really unfortunate combination of situations, Greg, and you have my sympathy.
Legally, I would say you are fully 'entitled' to recover your bikes, but - to do this correctly - you'd need a court order. 
These bikes are yours (you can evidence this?), and were placed in the shed of the family home with permission. This last point might be tricky to 'evidence' if X claims 'no', and your mum backs them up or says nothing, but if you can demonstrate that you either lived at that house at the time, or had regular access to it, then that should be enough. Ie, how else did they get there?!
Do you have Legal Protection in your existing house insurance? I can't see them becoming 'involved' in a case like this, as there's nothing for them to 'defend' or to 'win', but they can be good for offering advice and guidance. Call them up, and see if they'll guide you in how to take out a court order, or possibly an injunction against X from interfering with you (although that would need your mum to say it's ok for you to access the shed - would she?)
That could be quite satisfying when the cops next turn up.
Failing LegProt, I'd search the interweb and visit your County Court and ask them for advice on how to do this. 

May I ask - what is X's beef with you? Trying to hold on to the family home? If this concerns either you or your other siblings(s), then collate all the evidence about what's been going on. Write a chronological account of everything that's happened, what was said, what was done. What actual evidence do you have? If 'next to none', then you may wish to consider buying a discrete video recorder to have on your person the next time you visit. Sounds hellish, but if it's the only way you can prove what the situation actually is - you request access to your bikes, X refuses with no valid reason, mum becomes upset and asks you to let it be - then you need to capture this. That should demonstrate that X's behaviour is the unreasonable and unjustifiable cause of your mum's anguish. 
And definitely have either a discrete recorder, or a colleague with you (with phone ready) when you come to legitimately claim your bikes. Make sure you 100% demonstrate (record) that the situation is straight-forward and matter-of-fact - you have this court order/injunction, you ain't going to cause a 'scene', you only want back what's yours with zero fuss. Capture that it is only X's behaviour that might escalate the situation, involve your mum, and cause her distress. If, in the future, X claims that they're the only ones who 'cared' about your mum, and is solely entitled to the house, you can show otherwise.
From what you describe, X has no reasonable cause whatsoever in preventing you from accessing your bikes? And is seemingly 'happy' for this stupid non-situation to cause serious upset to your unwell mum, and a rift in your relationship? Wow.
Do this properly.
Hellish

Thanks, appreciate the advice.  I hope it wont get that far but I want to think things through.  X has fallen out with all her historic friends and all but maybe 2 members of the family and say mum has ruined her life.  I'm sure there are things I have done to upset her but I'm just one of many on the receiving end.  Probably not helped because I do not hate our 11 years late father but X does and he has been clear that I should erase him from history and one of the bikes I bought with him.  I just think she doesn't want me on the property, which is due to be repossessed when my mum passes by the way.

Greguk123

Bigphil1474 said:

OP, maybe you could purchase an afternoon tea for two gift for you and your mum, and then unfortunately be unable to go so could your sibling take your mum instead? Get them out of the house for a couple of hours, while you nip down and get your bikes? 

Thanks, mum not well enough and X has refused coffee and lunch for 3 years now so that's a no