PLUM Shady Practices

Goliathslayer

I am new here and stumbled upon PLUM via the MSE ISA report citing Plum as the highest interest rate provider currently. I took the plunge although the app is somewhat confusing and asking staff questions via the app proved a minefield on its own.

I seemed to have figured it out in the end and then took the plunge and requested a transfer of my existing ISA (from a different provider) to plum after making a 2024 deposit from my bank account. And yes, I did question why it takes so long to have funds transferred over and where to money sits as it had left my bank account but I got the usual scripted points of balance clearing 

In any case, I was willing to wait and then curiousity got the better of me in trying to explore the investment side of Plum with stocks and shares ISA so I made another transfer to the plum wallet but after trying to do so (a week after opening the plum account), I decided the system did not seem right for me as it tended to gear you towards investing so, I decided to withdraw my money back into my original current account on the 12th of May ( account opened on the 6th of May), the withdrawal showed as to be returned to my bank account on the 13th of May so I waited...

Come Monday 13th of May, I received multiple messages saying my account has been frozen and I will need to prove source of income and my identity else my money will be held 

I was furious as the money was not returned to my account as promised and no one is saying anything or responding to multiple messages.

I spoke with my previous ISA provider (shawbrook bank) who confirmed plum has my accrued ISA funds and not sure why I am being treated as such.

I requested a closure of the accounts and my money returned and then all communication ceased. They were quick to respond to messages of investment queries (within an hour though).

There is no phone number to call nor are you able to even view details of the ISA account nor details of your money. 

Be warned, plum is a fintech company and on FSC website, they are not completely safeguarded by the deposit protection as major financial institutions are.

I will advise MSE to validate their practices before having Plum pushed to potential MSE followers 

Plum has not confirmed any violations triggering this absurd direction and refusing to close my account causing me to have money sitting with them gaining no interest.

I have spoken with FSC regarding this and giving Plum 24hours to close my account and return money to my original bank account and previous ISA provider.

Is this normal practice within a week of account opening with no reason at all other than me being nervous and want my money back?

eskbanker

You opened an account last week, transferred an ISA into it and then decided to withdraw all the money the day before yesterday?  That's not typical behaviour so it's not a huge surprise that it's raised suspicions and led to ID/funds verification - have you provided what they asked for yesterday yet, or are you refusing to do so in the belief that you can circumvent those checks?

dunstonh

PLUM Shady Practices

or another way of putting it is that you carried out a potentially shady transaction and triggered the enhanced AML checks.

I was furious as the money was not returned to my account as promised and no one is saying anything or responding to multiple messages.

Once enhanced AML checks have been triggered, no-one can speak to you about it.  

I will advise MSE to validate their practices before having Plum pushed to potential MSE followers 

MSE do not push anyone and Plum are doing what other providers would do in the same scenario.

Plum has not confirmed any violations triggering this absurd direction and refusing to close my account causing me to have money sitting with them gaining no interest.

Excellent. That means they are following the rules correctly.    Maybe you should advise MSE that Plum is doing things correctly.

I have spoken with FSC regarding this and giving Plum 24hours to close my account and return money to my original bank account and previous ISA provider.

What is FSC?

Is this normal practice within a week of account opening with no reason at all other than me being nervous and want my money back?

Yes, it is normal.

jimjames

dunstonh said:

I have spoken with FSC regarding this and giving Plum 24hours to close my account and return money to my original bank account and previous ISA provider.

What is FSC?

I dont think they can help with investments very much  (or at least non forestry ones!)

https://uk.fsc.org/what-is-fsc

Goliathslayer

I am happy to be corrected if I have done something wrong in ignorance. Hiding behind what you say AML with no user education sounds wrong to me. In any case, thanks for the education as already had the echo from Plum (assumed me trying to be shady), what you failed to point out though Plum has full access to my account and yet the outcome only got triggered when I decided they were not for me and wanted to return my money to my chase savingsand not invest in risky stocks. What shady act could trigger an AML algorithm?


For what is worth, go look on the The FSCS website, your money is not protected if using Plum as a savings vehicle. I am only trying to help others be aware of what I have found out as part of my experience. Also accusing me of being dishonest only prevents others from being caught out of the company falls under.

Thought this forum don't practice cancel culture on...

Thanks for the re-education though.

Goliathslayer

Correction: I only wanted to cancel the investment side and was happy to leave my cash ISA in place and never ever withdraw from the ISA. I only stumbled upon the FSC report on plum when I got nervous with my protection status and also decided to return my funds back to my original provider which I have done 

As I said, I only needed a valid reason which they are also not stating, maybe it is a communication issue but speaking with my old provider they also found their practice strange.

I have been saving for over 30years and never once have I seen such overstepping to seize valid money with no reason is my challenge really other than they have the right.

We seem to live in strange times if everyone is seeing overreach as normal without challenge I must say.

masonic

Goliathslayer said:

I have been saving for over 30years and never once have I seen such overstepping to seize valid money with no reason is my challenge really other than they have the right.

If you don't think the anti-money laundering legistlation passed by Parliament is valid, then that is something to take up with your local MP. Financial institutions don't have the "right" to do this, they are forced to by law.

Personally, I am do not consider it a major problem to be occasionally inconvenienced (such as once in 30 years) by a delayed payment in the interests of fighting organised crime. Many laws occasionally inconvenience someone who was not doing anything illegal.

Goliathslayer

And there is the problem, the presumption of guilt because I have the skepticism to question why. Critical thinking seem not to ever be encouraged.

Looks like I keep getting misunderstood or misinterpreted on every word I utter. Where in my statement did I mention or inferior not supporting anti fraud legislations????

UPDATE: Plum have modified their stance on the proof of income as I tried to mention in this forum, having access to my bank account via open banking should have not required a proof of funds and they accepted this and hopefully their processes will be updated.

And yes, I have provided proof of ID, although that is also redundant in Plums case of having access to existing UK account which is validated in their account opening process as this is not a requirement.

Take a look at the account switching process, proof income or ID bares no relevance as it is redundant with inter banking relationship.

To me the case is closed as I should be getting my money back and Plum closed shortly and I hope I am crying wolf but I am risk averse...each to their own as I always say.

Thanks to all replies though...stay safe.

dunstonh

what you failed to point out though Plum has full access to my account and yet the outcome only got triggered when I decided they were not for me and wanted to return my money to my chase savingsand not invest in risky stocks.  What shady act could trigger an AML algorithm?

That was pointed out in post #2 by eskbanker.    By creating a transaction that looks like "layering" you created the enhanced checks.   When you opened the account, standard checks would be carried out.

As I said, I only needed a valid reason which they are also not stating, maybe it is a communication issue but speaking with my old provider they also found their practice strange.

Your old provider won't find it strange.  The person you spoke to is just pacifying you.  Your old provider would also have a similar arrangement and would likely do the same thing.   All financial firms are required to follow the same requirements. 

The provider is not allowed to tell you why.

I have been saving for over 30years and never once have I seen such overstepping to seize valid money with no reason is my challenge really other than they have the right.

And in that 30 years, how often have you moved money into a new product only to then move it again days later.

The UK followed the EU directives until version 5.  It hasn't implemented version 6 but went in a slightly different direction.  They are mostly the same.  If you fancy finding out why, then take a look at the EU's directives on AML.    The cancellation of investment products in a short period has been a reportable event since the 90s.

masonic

Goliathslayer said:

And there is the problem, the presumption of guilt because I have the skepticism to question why. Critical thinking seem not to ever be encouraged.
Looks like I keep getting misunderstood or misinterpreted on every word I utter. Where in my statement did I mention or inferior not supporting anti fraud legislations????

What you are describing as 'presumption of guilt', the requirement not to let a customer question why, and no discretion for the bank to engage in 'critical thinking', are all written into the legislation.

As you have found, these things normally sort themselves out given a little time. You will not be told what actually went on behind the scenes to enable the money to be released. If they've found evidence of income via Open Banking, that is good, and it would be sensible for them to use that access where available to avoid making direct requests of the customer going forward.

Goliathslayer

I do actually move money quite a lot but mainly with the bigger names bank and this is my first time with a fintech and found out their setup is a bit wish washy with a snazzy app to hide the backend complicated setup hence the reason money in and money out takes ages. Only time I get funds stopped is with large payments for security authorization which I never contest as the AML gets triggered even with multiple payments, I mainly actually call my bank(s) to let them know when such is about to happen anyway.

Still don't have my money and no one is even saying anything about the £10k but I got a message about they triggering a refund of the £506....replies are so slow, no way to escalate, you just sit there at their mercy. I guess with the idea of digital futures, we have to get used to it.

From the screenshot, be the judge and tell me what I may have done wrong except for deciding not to put the remaining 10k in their stocks and shares ISA as I thought to reduce my mortgage balance instead.

And regards to AML, I never bought any investment product as Plum works with holding account which you are then transfer from to your account or to an investment product (pockets). I never transferred any money to investment pocket other than the cash ISA which i never tried to withdraw from hence why I challenged the in the first instance.

Something did not sit right with me and seeing how slow it is to have my money back and no one is saying anything, I will leave it your own conclusions.