Air BnB next door - do we have any rights?

RHemmings

JuliaMary_2 said:

Thanks all - have done a bit of digging this evening and found out that houses on our street are freehold and whilst restrictive covenants exist - no business on premises etc - they are unlikely to be enforceable, given age of property and fact covenants are between house owner and original land owner (who's probably no longer with us). As the neighbour I can't enforce the covenant breach itself. 
 

Who said this? I believed that neighbouring home-owners who benefit from a covenant can enforce it? I looked up some sources online and generally they say that a neighbour who wasn't the original seller may be able to enforce a covenant. E.g. https://www.wbw.co.uk/restrictive-covenants-guide/   https://www.stephensons.co.uk/site/individuals/neighbour_disputes/breach_of_covenant/

This is not to say that enforcing the covenant will prevent the neighbour running an AirBnB. That's a separate question. But, from what I've previously seen and have seen online now, there are situations where a neighbour, who was not the party who created the covenants, being able to enforce them.

Note that I've seen several statements that if someone wants to enforce a covenant that they should act quickly as courts are likely to be sympathetic to the party breaking the covenant if enforcement is late and significant costs have already been incurred. 

Again, this is not a recommendation to attempt to enforce the covenant. Just a discussion on whether current neighbours can enforce them. 

Bigphil1474

OP, Air BnB's are generally seen as commercial enterprises where the whole property is rented out for most of the year . They will usually need planning permission (in England at least), and planning enforcement are usually keen to deal with these issues - I spent 3 months helping planning track down an Air BnB owner as we both wanted a word professionally.

In terms of noise, it will be difficult as the council will want evidence of sustained noise nuisance before they can take action. However, the noise issue should be dealt with under planning. Ultimately you can contact Air BnB and I have heard that they can be helpful sometimes, sometimes not so much. The main thing is that the owner limits renting the property out to stag and hen parties which may be on the listing when it happens. Doesn't sound like it would be though. 

RHemmings

Bigphil1474 said:

OP, Air BnB's are generally seen as commercial enterprises where the whole property is rented out for most of the year . They will usually need planning permission (in England at least), and planning enforcement are usually keen to deal with these issues - I spent 3 months helping planning track down an Air BnB owner as we both wanted a word professionally.

In terms of noise, it will be difficult as the council will want evidence of sustained noise nuisance before they can take action. However, the noise issue should be dealt with under planning. Ultimately you can contact Air BnB and I have heard that they can be helpful sometimes, sometimes not so much. The main thing is that the owner limits renting the property out to stag and hen parties which may be on the listing when it happens. Doesn't sound like it would be though. 

While things seem to be changing, it seems that AirBnB does not require planning permission if it's the owner's own home, and it is let out for less than 90 days per year. The OP says that they are concerned that the man may claim that he lives there. I've seen claims that the 90 days limit will apply even if the owner does not live there. But, given the man having other AirBnBs, it's likely that it will be planned to be rented out for more than 90 days. In which case, planning permission is needed. 

It seems that under proposed (as of Feb) changes to the law, existing AirBnBs would automatically get planning permission. But, that this planning permission can be revoked. This may eventually give people in general an avenue to address anti-social behaviour with AirBnBs, if complaints can be made and eventually planning permission could be revoked if problems are solved. Assuming councils act. 

Albermarle

JuliaMary_2 said:

Thanks all - have done a bit of digging this evening and found out that houses on our street are freehold and whilst restrictive covenants exist - no business on premises etc - they are unlikely to be enforceable, given age of property and fact covenants are between house owner and original land owner (who's probably no longer with us). As the neighbour I can't enforce the covenant breach itself. 
Plus neighbour is a property developer so no mortgage etc which might have had clauses etc.  As part of his redevelopment of property he made bedrooms as large as possible to maximise beds/numbers.
Councils are all cash-strapped and unlikely to take action for one semi-detached neighbour affected by noise - other than me waiting up repeatedly for delayed noise enforcement officers etc etc. If the neighbour/property owner doesn't live next door - or has houses to flit between - he's not going to be bothered: he still gets his money. He told me previously the council never take any action - and he's right (so he knows his way round the system/loopholes etc). 
We live in big city so it's likely to be let for groups coming for weekend events/visits/concerts etc.  We don't live in a particularly scenic area so more likely people out for a good time rather than long time. 
Tactically I don't want to wait - especailly with son's condition - and be on tenterhooks/stressed that we'll have a revolving door of revellers for 3 months of the year (or same spread out across the year) where no planning permission etc is required.  I guess we can't control his behaviour only our own. 
We'd been planning on moving in near future so maybe this has just speeded up our plans.  Have decided to try sourcing a detached property and/or one with more robust restrictions/considerations of neighbours that aren't so easily circumvented. Unfortunately, often the only people air bnb benefits is the neighbours who aren't there - there seems to be little/no coverage or concern for the established residents dealing with all the consequences.  I would have had no problem with a longer-term let / tenant as you can build up a relationship - and they have jobs and sleep needs etc - but that's very different to a revolving door of party people who aren't there for early nights and quiet discussions.  Thanks for all your help and suggestion.   

I have read through the thread, and would I be right in saying that so far you are only speculating that it will be an Airbnb? and that nothing has actually happened yet?
Or have I misunderstood ?

pinkshoes

JuliaMary_2 said:

Thanks all - have done a bit of digging this evening and found out that houses on our street are freehold and whilst restrictive covenants exist - no business on premises etc - they are unlikely to be enforceable, given age of property and fact covenants are between house owner and original land owner (who's probably no longer with us). As the neighbour I can't enforce the covenant breach itself. 
Plus neighbour is a property developer so no mortgage etc which might have had clauses etc.  As part of his redevelopment of property he made bedrooms as large as possible to maximise beds/numbers.
Councils are all cash-strapped and unlikely to take action for one semi-detached neighbour affected by noise - other than me waiting up repeatedly for delayed noise enforcement officers etc etc. If the neighbour/property owner doesn't live next door - or has houses to flit between - he's not going to be bothered: he still gets his money. He told me previously the council never take any action - and he's right (so he knows his way round the system/loopholes etc). 
We live in big city so it's likely to be let for groups coming for weekend events/visits/concerts etc.  We don't live in a particularly scenic area so more likely people out for a good time rather than long time. 
Tactically I don't want to wait - especailly with son's condition - and be on tenterhooks/stressed that we'll have a revolving door of revellers for 3 months of the year (or same spread out across the year) where no planning permission etc is required.  I guess we can't control his behaviour only our own. 
We'd been planning on moving in near future so maybe this has just speeded up our plans.  Have decided to try sourcing a detached property and/or one with more robust restrictions/considerations of neighbours that aren't so easily circumvented. Unfortunately, often the only people air bnb benefits is the neighbours who aren't there - there seems to be little/no coverage or concern for the established residents dealing with all the consequences.  I would have had no problem with a longer-term let / tenant as you can build up a relationship - and they have jobs and sleep needs etc - but that's very different to a revolving door of party people who aren't there for early nights and quiet discussions.  Thanks for all your help and suggestion.   

So far, the above seems to be entirely speculation. 

I think you're massively over-thinking this.

The advantage of an air B&B is that if you do get someone noisy, you just ask them to turn it down and nicely explain about your son. They are probably only staying one night. Longer tenants tend to be business guests, or perhaps a family on holiday for a week so unlikely to make any noise.

A noisy neighbour in a rental property you're stuck with for months, if not even longer. 

ThisIsWeird

pinkshoes said:

The advantage of an air B&B is that if you do get someone noisy, you just ask them to turn it down and nicely explain about your son. They are probably only staying one night. Longer tenants tend to be business guests, or perhaps a family on holiday for a week so unlikely to make any noise.
A noisy neighbour in a rental property you're stuck with for months, if not even longer.

D'oh! That's a very good point! :-)

Bigphil1474

Not sure that's necessarily an advantage - having to tell new 'neighbours' every week/weekend as opposed to having to tell a neighbour once? Whilst getting stuck with a noisy neighbour long term can be a huge pain, you do have avenues to try and rectify that - being 'stuck' with a great neighbour long term can be fantastic obviously. 

ThisIsWeird

Bigphil1474 said:

Not sure that's necessarily an advantage - having to tell new 'neighbours' every week/weekend as opposed to having to tell a neighbour once? Whilst getting stuck with a noisy neighbour long term can be a huge pain, you do have avenues to try and rectify that - being 'stuck' with a great neighbour long term can be fantastic obviously. 

It is, indeed, a lottery.

Hard to work out which way is more likely to garner the best long-term outcome. A good neighbour is a wonderful thing. But I'd suggest that a noisy a'ole of a neighbour buying, or long-term renting, would be significantly the worst overall outcome. And there are plenty of cases cited on this forum, where the available 'avenues' have either come to now't, or are next to impossible to negotiate.

On balance, I think my advice to JuliaMary would be to stay put, hope and expect the best, but be prepared to act quickly in response to the worst. I reckon the vast majority of holidaymakers will be normal and considerate. 

Any that behave in a clearly excessively noisy or anti-social manner, you go 'round, knock on their door, and ask them nicely to turn it down. Add, "The B&Ber should have informed you that your neighbour has an autistic child who reacts very badly to excessive noise, and to therefore act considerately towards your neighbours. He told you this, surely? No? Oh dear - very remiss of him. His error, not yours, but I have to ask you now to be more quiet, and to take it up with him if this impacts on your holiday."

And go back and knock again if they don't. You won't see these folk again, so be bold.

Your B&Ber will get some very poor reviews on the site, explaining what happened, and how it's unsuitable for those who like to parteeee. Any potential new holidaymakers will then know what to expect, and to avoid.

Jemma01

I'd tip HMRC to see if he's declared himself as a landlord and is paying taxes on the investment. You can do that online without talking to anyone.

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

I agree l absolutely think you can enforce a covenant because they are there for the benefit of the residents. What do the other neighbours say?

Also if you make a nose complaint the council will investigate - they are the regulating authority for civil nuisance - they must have a procedure and appropriate response in place.

I do think you are getting worked up over this and going to worst case scenario, which is easy to do, but is resulting inflation you thinking you are helpless. You aren't.