What are the facts about 'wet cam belts', Vauxhall and others?

Baldytyke88

My daughter has a 2013 Aygo

"AI Overview, Yes, some Toyota Aygo models have a wet timing belt, which is lubricated by engine oil"

I will keep an eye on things.

Barkin

Baldytyke88 said:

My daughter has a 2013 Aygo

"AI Overview, Yes, some Toyota Aygo models have a wet timing belt, which is lubricated by engine oil"

I will keep an eye on things.

Which engine?

The 1.0L 3 cyl - which I'd guess is the most common - doesn't use a belt. 

Mildly_Miffed

Barkin said:

Baldytyke88 said:

My daughter has a 2013 Aygo

"AI Overview, Yes, some Toyota Aygo models have a wet timing belt, which is lubricated by engine oil"

I will keep an eye on things.

Which engine?

The 1.0L 3 cyl - which I'd guess is the most common - doesn't use a belt. 

The big clue there is "AI overview". Or, to put it another way, it's utter codswallop.

2013 would be an original shape C107go. The new-body C108go didn't come out until 2014.
So the engine could only be the 1.0 Daihatsu KR (chain) or the 1.4 Ford DLD (dry belt).

Even if it was a newer one, there are no wet belt lumps in any of the three generations including the current AygoX.

Goudy

facade said:

What I don't understand about the puretech engines, is why they block up all the internal oilways.

Doesn't the oil pass through a paper filter that stops anything larger than 40 microns?

Or does the oil just bypass the filter most of the time, which rather defeats the point of having one?

I suppose the job of the bypass is to let unfiltered oil through when the paper filter clogs up as unfiltered oil is better than no oil at all, IIRC, in The Olden Days when the oil would go pretty much solid after about 3000 miles, when the filter blocked, the bypass opened and the oil pressure would be low, so the light came on- is this what happens to the puretech- when the light comes on the oil is bypassing the filter and the pieces of belt start blocking up the oilways.

So if the light has never been on with the engine running you can "get away with it" and just clean out the strainer and pickup pipe?

The oil is pumped around in circuits.
Generally the oil stored is the sump, from here it will pass through the filter and on to the various circuits before returning to the sump.
If it picks anything up on it's way that debris has to travel all the way around until it returns to the sump to get picked up again and then filtered.

Also the filter will have a emergency bypass system.
If the filter clogs, pressure will allow the oil to bypass the filter altogether and pump unfiltered oil around the engine.
That's a good thing until larger debris starts clogging the bypass and oil struggles to get out of the sump altogether.

facade

Goudy said:

facade said:

What I don't understand about the puretech engines, is why they block up all the internal oilways.

Doesn't the oil pass through a paper filter that stops anything larger than 40 microns?

Or does the oil just bypass the filter most of the time, which rather defeats the point of having one?

I suppose the job of the bypass is to let unfiltered oil through when the paper filter clogs up as unfiltered oil is better than no oil at all, IIRC, in The Olden Days when the oil would go pretty much solid after about 3000 miles, when the filter blocked, the bypass opened and the oil pressure would be low, so the light came on- is this what happens to the puretech- when the light comes on the oil is bypassing the filter and the pieces of belt start blocking up the oilways.

So if the light has never been on with the engine running you can "get away with it" and just clean out the strainer and pickup pipe?

The oil is pumped around in circuits.
Generally the oil stored is the sump, from here it will pass through the filter and on to the various circuits before returning to the sump.
If it picks anything up on it's way that debris has to travel all the way around until it returns to the sump to get picked up again and then filtered.

Also the filter will have a emergency bypass system.
If the filter clogs, pressure will allow the oil to bypass the filter altogether and pump unfiltered oil around the engine.
That's a good thing until larger debris starts clogging the bypass and oil struggles to get out of the sump altogether.

Once the oil has been through the filter, the only thing it should be able to pick up in the galleries is bits of bearing.

All the pieces of belt, flakes of carbon glaze, piston blow by, unburnt fuel, water etc. will go into the oil on it's way back to the sump. (and get filtered out next time the oil goes through the pump)

So to have belt debris in the feed to the VVT solenoids & turbo the filter bypass must be open, assuming the filter is in the right place- straight after the pump

It must be caused by running it with half the belt missing and blocking up the filter.

Explains the dual pricing on a belt- the main dealer and cheap garages just do the belt and clear the pickup strainer if there is no complaint about VVT problems, the expensive independents clear the filters in the oilways and solenoids too- which needs a lot more time and some gaskets.

Barkin

Mildly_Miffed said:

Barkin said:

Baldytyke88 said:

My daughter has a 2013 Aygo

"AI Overview, Yes, some Toyota Aygo models have a wet timing belt, which is lubricated by engine oil"

I will keep an eye on things.

Which engine?

The 1.0L 3 cyl - which I'd guess is the most common - doesn't use a belt. 

The big clue there is "AI overview". Or, to put it another way, it's utter codswallop.

2013 would be an original shape C107go. The new-body C108go didn't come out until 2014.
So the engine could only be the 1.0 Daihatsu KR (chain) or the 1.4 Ford DLD (dry belt).

Even if it was a newer one, there are no wet belt lumps in any of the three generations including the current AygoX.

That's the one - thanks. I knew there was another engine option, but didn't mention it because I couldn't remember it & couldn't be bothered to look it up!

Ain't AI great... 

photome

Anyone  thinking of buying a car with a wet belt should watch some of the you tube videos of wet belts being replaced on low mileage engines due to degrading belts with blocked filters

I will never buy a car with a wet belt.

Ibrahim5

One of my wife's friends has just bought a brand new motorhome with a wet belt. They read that there was a problem with them and asked for my advice. I just said "bargepole". The next message was "OK we have bought it".

Mildly_Miffed

Ibrahim5 said:

One of my wife's friends has just bought a brand new motorhome with a wet belt. They read that there was a problem with them and asked for my advice. I just said "bargepole". The next message was "OK we have bought it".

The correct answer would have been "make sure the oil is changed regularly (in a moho, I'd go for annually, forget mileage), and make sure it's the correct oil. Then change the belt on or before time schedule."

photome

Mildly_Miffed said:

Ibrahim5 said:

One of my wife's friends has just bought a brand new motorhome with a wet belt. They read that there was a problem with them and asked for my advice. I just said "bargepole". The next message was "OK we have bought it".

The correct answer would have been "make sure the oil is changed regularly (in a moho, I'd go for annually, forget mileage), and make sure it's the correct oil. Then change the belt on or before time schedule."

Even doing all of that, doesn’t necessarily prevent issues