Universal credit payment went from £98 to £207 overnight, why?

ColonelCabbage

Yamor said:

This is really interesting, and seems to show that UC have applied the LHA increase (in your case, the Birmingham 1-bed rate) earlier than they were supposed to.
They are only supposed to apply it to APs beginning on or after 8th April, but from your screenshot it seems like they've applied the new rates from APs beginning on or after 1st April.

The other difference between the two APs is that the Minimum Income Floor ("MIF") has increased due to the increase in NMW rates as of 1st April.

For your next AP, assuming no further changes to your circumstances, you can expect to get £212.48. The change will be due to an increase to your standard allowance, which is then mostly cancelled out by a further increase to your MIF (to £1,556.30).

The last point I would make is that it is worth considering whether you are still "gainfully self-employed".
The MIF only applies to those gainfully self-employed. In your case it is apparent that there has been no income or expenses for a few months. Furthermore, you also have some employed earnings. Both of these could be indicators that you are no longer gainfully self-employed.

Just got UC payment, it's £212.48 exactly

If I cease to be gainfully SE I'll have to look for work and I can't take a regular job because of my fatigue syndrome. I can't either get PIP or LCW because despite what people think on this forum you actually need to be severely disabled for that (can't eat by yourself, can't wash youself, etc). People in a similar situation - I assume there are hundreds of thousands of us in the UK - are thus screwed by the system. If they have no family to support them they'll just go homeless.

Spoonie_Turtle

ColonelCabbage said:

Yamor said:

This is really interesting, and seems to show that UC have applied the LHA increase (in your case, the Birmingham 1-bed rate) earlier than they were supposed to.
They are only supposed to apply it to APs beginning on or after 8th April, but from your screenshot it seems like they've applied the new rates from APs beginning on or after 1st April.

The other difference between the two APs is that the Minimum Income Floor ("MIF") has increased due to the increase in NMW rates as of 1st April.

For your next AP, assuming no further changes to your circumstances, you can expect to get £212.48. The change will be due to an increase to your standard allowance, which is then mostly cancelled out by a further increase to your MIF (to £1,556.30).

The last point I would make is that it is worth considering whether you are still "gainfully self-employed".
The MIF only applies to those gainfully self-employed. In your case it is apparent that there has been no income or expenses for a few months. Furthermore, you also have some employed earnings. Both of these could be indicators that you are no longer gainfully self-employed.

Just got UC payment, it's £212.48 exactly

If I cease to be gainfully SE I'll have to look for work and I can't take a regular job because of my fatigue syndrome. I can't either get PIP or LCW because despite what people think on this forum you actually need to be severely disabled for that (can't eat by yourself, can't wash youself, etc). People in a similar situation - I assume there are hundreds of thousands of us in the UK - are thus screwed by the system. If they have no family to support them they'll just go homeless.

It sounds like you imagine most people who qualify for PIP and/or LCW are virtually bedbound - that is certainly not the case, only a minority are.

The criteria for both PIP and LCWRA take into consideration whether you can do something reliably, repeatedly/as often as would reasonably expected to, taking no more than twice the length of time as a nondisabled person would, and to an acceptable standard including taking into account aftereffects.

Unfortunately PIP decisions especially are often wrong to start with, but that doesn't change what the law actually says about what people are entitled to.  It just means having to use yet more precious energy that we don't have spare to fight for what we should be awarded.
WCA decisions tend to be a bit more reliable but some people do still have to challenge then to get the correct decision.

If you didn't meet any of the LCW criteria you could still qualify if it would put you at significant risk of harm (e.g. make your health deteriorate) were you found fit for work and expected to attend appointments and search for work full time.  Likewise with LCWRA if being found only to have LCW would put you at significant risk of harm.


It is true there are unfortunately people who are unwell or disabled who don't meet the high thresholds for PIP and/or LCW/RA, but there are probably more people who are wrongly denied than who truly don't qualify.  Which is why having a good understanding of how the benefits are assessed is incredibly helpful, to know whether a decision should be challenged or not.

poppy12345

ColonelCabbage said:

Yamor said:

This is really interesting, and seems to show that UC have applied the LHA increase (in your case, the Birmingham 1-bed rate) earlier than they were supposed to.
They are only supposed to apply it to APs beginning on or after 8th April, but from your screenshot it seems like they've applied the new rates from APs beginning on or after 1st April.

The other difference between the two APs is that the Minimum Income Floor ("MIF") has increased due to the increase in NMW rates as of 1st April.

For your next AP, assuming no further changes to your circumstances, you can expect to get £212.48. The change will be due to an increase to your standard allowance, which is then mostly cancelled out by a further increase to your MIF (to £1,556.30).

The last point I would make is that it is worth considering whether you are still "gainfully self-employed".
The MIF only applies to those gainfully self-employed. In your case it is apparent that there has been no income or expenses for a few months. Furthermore, you also have some employed earnings. Both of these could be indicators that you are no longer gainfully self-employed.

 I can't either get PIP or LCW because despite what people think on this forum you actually need to be severely disabled for that (can't eat by yourself, can't wash youself, etc). People in a similar situation - I assume there are hundreds of thousands of us in the UK - are thus screwed by the system. If they have no family to support them they'll just go homeless.

This tells me that you have no understanding of the PIP and LCWRA descriptors at all. You certainly do not need to be unable to do those things at all and you do not need to be bed bound. 

I can do all of those and other descriptors too but it takes me longer than someone without a disability would take. Also for me, if I over step that barrier then I'm done for the next 4 or 5 days. Which means for those days I can do even less than I could usually do.

I can walk too and I claim Enhanced mobility but I have so much pain when I do walk, every part of my body hurts but my legs and hip are the worst of all. When I walk, it feels like I'm walking on hot coal and my walking pace is very slow. I can sometimes go out in the morning and walk a short distance but there's no way I could walk that same distance later the same day. My pain levels go through the roof every single evening and this is from mostly walking around my small house. 

You should take sometime and have a read of this. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Muttleythefrog

ColonelCabbage said:

Yamor said:

This is really interesting, and seems to show that UC have applied the LHA increase (in your case, the Birmingham 1-bed rate) earlier than they were supposed to.
They are only supposed to apply it to APs beginning on or after 8th April, but from your screenshot it seems like they've applied the new rates from APs beginning on or after 1st April.

The other difference between the two APs is that the Minimum Income Floor ("MIF") has increased due to the increase in NMW rates as of 1st April.

For your next AP, assuming no further changes to your circumstances, you can expect to get £212.48. The change will be due to an increase to your standard allowance, which is then mostly cancelled out by a further increase to your MIF (to £1,556.30).

The last point I would make is that it is worth considering whether you are still "gainfully self-employed".
The MIF only applies to those gainfully self-employed. In your case it is apparent that there has been no income or expenses for a few months. Furthermore, you also have some employed earnings. Both of these could be indicators that you are no longer gainfully self-employed.

Just got UC payment, it's £212.48 exactly

If I cease to be gainfully SE I'll have to look for work and I can't take a regular job because of my fatigue syndrome. I can't either get PIP or LCW because despite what people think on this forum you actually need to be severely disabled for that (can't eat by yourself, can't wash youself, etc). People in a similar situation - I assume there are hundreds of thousands of us in the UK - are thus screwed by the system. If they have no family to support them they'll just go homeless.

With respect... many people on the forum are claiming these benefits and have for many years while advising others successfully in their claims. There's a good track record including posters who assist claimants offline in more formal capacity with high success rates in challenging decisions. The above two posts save me time giving a long technical response as I agree with both.

It comes down to the activities and descriptors... and importantly applying reliability criteria... for example I am considered unable to go out due to overwhelming anxiety...however when that was first determined I was at an assessment centre where I had obviously successfully gone out... but I cannot do that reliably. That alone gives an award of standard mobility and indeed qualifies for a blue badge. Millions are claiming PIP and they vary enormously in how they're disabled and why they're disabled. As can be seen from the PIP Daily Living Activities as an example someone with mental health problems may score across many activities due to requiring prompting, support and possibly not very highly but leading to a significant award... whether you'd consider them severely disabled or not I don't know. 

I would urge good technical understanding of PIP and the WCA (if claiming N-S ESA or U/C is relevant) before determining relevance and remember many claims are refused after initial application but later end up in payment after challenge.

ColonelCabbage

@Spoonie_Turtle @poppy12345 @Muttleythefrog

Due to some weird condition I live under crushing fatigue at all times with frequent shortness of breath. As a result I can only work 2-3 hours per day from home.

So needless to say I can't support myself. And yet, I scored 0 in all sections of the PIP questionnaire. No point trying with LCW, it'll be the same based on the criteria I saw.

I receive almost nothing as universal credit because I'm expected to meet minimum income floor of around £19k (which obviously I'm not close to make).

I can't make a living and the state won't help: how am I supposed to NOT think that people like myself are screwed by the system?

Spoonie_Turtle

What PIP questionnaire?  Did you actually apply, and if so did you challenge the outcome?  It's not uncommon to go from 0 points at the first decision to challenging it and getting 12+ on both sections for the highest possible PIP award.

All the advice above remains true.  It's up to you whether you choose to read the source given for PIP to see that we're telling the truth about how it's actually assessed according to the law.  It's trickier to point to sources for the WCA because the government handbook is not public-friendly, but the principles of being able to do things safely and repeatedly still apply to the activities and how they're assessed. 
And depending on your mobility you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue and/or shortness of breath.  Plus if doing do would make you deteriorate (depending on the condition) then that still counts as not being able to do it.  And that's just the first descriptor.

Some useful WCA info here
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/know-hows/employment-and-support-allowance-esa-activities-and-descriptors-and-substantial-risk

We can't make you read or consider it but you may as well, to make sure that your struggle is definitely necessary under the current benefits system and that you're not missing out on anything you could qualify for.

Muttleythefrog

ColonelCabbage said:

@Spoonie_Turtle @poppy12345 @Muttleythefrog

Due to some weird condition I live under crushing fatigue at all times with frequent shortness of breath. As a result I can only work 2-3 hours per day from home.

So needless to say I can't support myself. And yet, I scored 0 in all sections of the PIP questionnaire. No point trying with LCW, it'll be the same based on the criteria I saw.

I receive almost nothing as universal credit because I'm expected to meet minimum income floor of around £19k (which obviously I'm not close to make).

I can't make a living and the state won't help: how am I supposed to NOT think that people like myself are screwed by the system?

At the end of the day you're much better placed than us to understand your day to day reality. I am a little surprised on the face of it that for the majority of the time you can perform all PIP activities Safely, To an acceptable standard, Repeatedly and In a reasonable time... but if you are sure then yes it isn't worth making a speculative PIP claim... especially if unable to reach 8 points on either component. Similar for the Work Capability Assessment.. I assume you've been through all activities/descriptors and determined you should not qualify for LCW or LCWRA.

If so then yes if you're struggling it might come down to looking at money saving ideas... reducing shopping bills etc... community larders... as well as the most effective way to work and earn given your restrictions.

ColonelCabbage

Spoonie_Turtle said:

What PIP questionnaire?  Did you actually apply, and if so did you challenge the outcome?  It's not uncommon to go from 0 points at the first decision to challenging it and getting 12+ on both sections for the highest possible PIP award.

All the advice above remains true.  It's up to you whether you choose to read the source given for PIP to see that we're telling the truth about how it's actually assessed according to the law.  It's trickier to point to sources for the WCA because the government handbook is not public-friendly, but the principles of being able to do things safely and repeatedly still apply to the activities and how they're assessed. 
And depending on your mobility you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue and/or shortness of breath.  Plus if doing do would make you deteriorate (depending on the condition) then that still counts as not being able to do it.  And that's just the first descriptor.

Some useful WCA info here
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/know-hows/employment-and-support-allowance-esa-activities-and-descriptors-and-substantial-risk

We can't make you read or consider it but you may as well, to make sure that your struggle is definitely necessary under the current benefits system and that you're not missing out on anything you could qualify for.

@Spoonie_Turtle yes I applied, got zero everywhere, made appeal, then received a letter confirming/insisting the decision was right.

"...you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue": there is a very obvious gap between this kind of thing on one side and being fully healthy/able on the other side. The system implicitely assumes that there does not exist any gap between these two sides. My existence is sufficient as a counter-proof: for the life of me I CANNOT work full-time even though I CAN repeatedly/safely/reliably do all the things mentioned in the PIP.

And again, I assume there are dozens or hundreds of thousands of people across the UK in the same situation. Why is it so hard to admit the system flawed in this regard?

@Muttleythefrog thanks but with just a few hours per day of work you can't possibly live in the UK.

Muttleythefrog

ColonelCabbage said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

What PIP questionnaire?  Did you actually apply, and if so did you challenge the outcome?  It's not uncommon to go from 0 points at the first decision to challenging it and getting 12+ on both sections for the highest possible PIP award.

All the advice above remains true.  It's up to you whether you choose to read the source given for PIP to see that we're telling the truth about how it's actually assessed according to the law.  It's trickier to point to sources for the WCA because the government handbook is not public-friendly, but the principles of being able to do things safely and repeatedly still apply to the activities and how they're assessed. 
And depending on your mobility you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue and/or shortness of breath.  Plus if doing do would make you deteriorate (depending on the condition) then that still counts as not being able to do it.  And that's just the first descriptor.

Some useful WCA info here
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/know-hows/employment-and-support-allowance-esa-activities-and-descriptors-and-substantial-risk

We can't make you read or consider it but you may as well, to make sure that your struggle is definitely necessary under the current benefits system and that you're not missing out on anything you could qualify for.

@Spoonie_Turtle yes I applied, got zero everywhere, made appeal, then received a letter confirming/insisting the decision was right.

"...you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue": there is a very obvious gap between this kind of thing on one side and being fully healthy/able on the other side. The system implicitely assumes that there does not exist any gap between these two sides. My existence is sufficient as a counter-proof: for the life of me I CANNOT work full-time even though I CAN repeatedly/safely/reliably do all the things mentioned in the PIP.

And again, I assume there are dozens or hundreds of thousands of people across the UK in the same situation. Why is it so hard to admit the system flawed in this regard?

@Muttleythefrog thanks but with just a few hours per day of work you can't possibly live in the UK.

Did you ever appeal to an independent tribunal... because Mandatory Reconsiderations most usually just return the same decision... the appeal success rate however is very high because the panels tend to want to get it right and consider all evidence including that provided directly by the claimant in person.

At the end of the day the system has to create some criteria and always there'll be outliers... things like the PIP scoring system do accommodate for differences in disablement level for activities included. 

I have to accept your judgement that you do not qualify in any way for PIP as you can do all activities without notable difficulty... and I assume you've similarly studied the WCA descriptors for ESA/U-C to conclude equivalent same.

On your last point... I'm not so sure... but at least you're on the right site for moneysaving... my advice would be target supermarkets for reduced stuff and community larders and the like... myself and wife can spend less than £20 a week on food and drink and often we're eating Waitrose, M&S, Co-op food... so not your typical cheapest... but of course we do target the budget supermarkets for mainstream shopping. 

Spoonie_Turtle

ColonelCabbage said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

What PIP questionnaire?  Did you actually apply, and if so did you challenge the outcome?  It's not uncommon to go from 0 points at the first decision to challenging it and getting 12+ on both sections for the highest possible PIP award.

All the advice above remains true.  It's up to you whether you choose to read the source given for PIP to see that we're telling the truth about how it's actually assessed according to the law.  It's trickier to point to sources for the WCA because the government handbook is not public-friendly, but the principles of being able to do things safely and repeatedly still apply to the activities and how they're assessed. 
And depending on your mobility you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue and/or shortness of breath.  Plus if doing do would make you deteriorate (depending on the condition) then that still counts as not being able to do it.  And that's just the first descriptor.

Some useful WCA info here
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/know-hows/employment-and-support-allowance-esa-activities-and-descriptors-and-substantial-risk

We can't make you read or consider it but you may as well, to make sure that your struggle is definitely necessary under the current benefits system and that you're not missing out on anything you could qualify for.

@Spoonie_Turtle yes I applied, got zero everywhere, made appeal, then received a letter confirming/insisting the decision was right.

"...you might well possibly qualify for LCWRA for not being able to repeatedly/safely/reliably walk or self-propel for 50m or more due to fatigue": there is a very obvious gap between this kind of thing on one side and being fully healthy/able on the other side. The system implicitely assumes that there does not exist any gap between these two sides. My existence is sufficient as a counter-proof: for the life of me I CANNOT work full-time even though I CAN repeatedly/safely/reliably do all the things mentioned in the PIP.

And again, I assume there are dozens or hundreds of thousands of people across the UK in the same situation. Why is it so hard to admit the system flawed in this regard?

@Muttleythefrog thanks but with just a few hours per day of work you can't possibly live in the UK.

Did you appeal all the way to tribunal, or just the initial Mandatory Reconsideration?  MRs are notoriously useless, they usually don't actually consider the decision, just stick with the initial one.

Also not sure why you're equating PIP and working, PIP is based on daily living not ability to work.  Loads of people claim PIP and work, even full-time.  (Although not so many of us who are disabled due to illness, to be fair.)

I do readily acknowledge that there are people who are ill and disabled who do fall through the gaps because the thresholds for PIP and ESA/UC LCWRA are high.  But there are also LOTS of people who are wrongly denied and thus believe they don't qualify - understandably, because in a decent society we should be able to trust the government department administering benefits for people who are potentially vulnerable and disadvantaged - when in reality they do qualify, when properly assessed according to the law. 
This is the reason we strongly advise people to thoroughly look into it and understand how it is supposed to be assessed, so that they will know whether the decision they get is probably correct or needs to be challenged.

I don't think it's constructive for me to engage any further here.