Is this a car dealer con?

Sad__Sam

Dear All

I am at a loss and wonder if someone can offer advice.

My wife has had a torrid year fighting cancer. We are hoping she is through the worst, fingers crossed.

As a treat, you only live once, I wanted to change her car. I saw one online, enquired about it, and gave the details of our car to the dealer.  4 days later he came back to me with the price to exchange, whereby we agreed to meet 10 days later, due to hospital follow-ups etc.

We did the test drive, gave the dealer a mass bundle 6 years of full main dealership receipts on our car for service history and health checks, he inspected our car, we paid the difference, we drove off.

 

Two days later we get an email to say:

 It is with disappointment that we discovered today that your part exchange is actually a cat D (Category D Insurance loss on Condition Alert Register).

On your invoice/contract you will note that we pacifically make reference that this must declared by you to us.

Nowhere on the invoice does it say such.  The invoice Terms and Conditions do say: “I declare that on my part exchange, the mileage is correct, it is free from lien or legal encumbrances, has no mechanical faults, has not had serious accident damage and is safe to drive on the road.”

 

He has sent us a screen shot to show the car was a CAT D insurance write off in May 2017, and that we bought the car February 2018.

He says he doesn’t sell write offs, wants to flog our car at auction and demands over £6,000 extra, or he will send the matter to court, with storage and legal fees it will be over £10,000.  He now values our old car less than smashed up similar cars for repair on ebay. 

It feels like a heavy-handed scam. Does anyone have advice please. 

Thank you.

maxmycardagain

he didnt do HIS checks, have you confirmed what he says with your own HPi check?

If you didny know, you couldnt have told him, have you got the invoice from when you bought it?


https://www.carcheck.co.uk/

https://totalcarcheck.co.uk/


https://www.hpi.co.uk/

DullGreyGuy

Sad__Sam said:

Dear All

I am at a loss and wonder if someone can offer advice.

My wife has had a torrid year fighting cancer. We are hoping she is through the worst, fingers crossed.

As a treat, you only live once, I wanted to change her car. I saw one online, enquired about it, and gave the details of our car to the dealer.  4 days later he came back to me with the price to exchange, whereby we agreed to meet 10 days later, due to hospital follow-ups etc.

We did the test drive, gave the dealer a mass bundle 6 years of full main dealership receipts on our car for service history and health checks, he inspected our car, we paid the difference, we drove off.

 

Two days later we get an email to say:

 It is with disappointment that we discovered today that your part exchange is actually a cat D (Category D Insurance loss on Condition Alert Register).

On your invoice/contract you will note that we pacifically make reference that this must declared by you to us.

Nowhere on the invoice does it say such.  The invoice Terms and Conditions do say: “I declare that on my part exchange, the mileage is correct, it is free from lien or legal encumbrances, has no mechanical faults, has not had serious accident damage and is safe to drive on the road.”

 

He has sent us a screen shot to show the car was a CAT D insurance write off in May 2017, and that we bought the car February 2018.

He says he doesn’t sell write offs, wants to flog our car at auction and demands over £6,000 extra, or he will send the matter to court, with storage and legal fees it will be over £10,000.  He now values our old car less than smashed up similar cars for repair on ebay. 

It feels like a heavy-handed scam. Does anyone have advice please. 

Thank you.

For the sake of a relatively small sum, do your own HPI Check to confirm if it is true or not. Guessing you didnt do one when buying it?

Cat D doesn't show on the V5c and depending on where you bought it from they may not have had any duty to tell you about it even if you asked and only a duty to disclose it if they knew about it. Depending how old the car was/what it was worth some very small damage can make a car a cat D write off... D has been replaced by N to mean it's a pure economics question and not one of structural damage etc. 

sheramber

What document it is a screenshot of?

facade

Sad__Sam said:

<snip>

On your invoice/contract you will note that we pacifically make reference that this must declared by you to us.

Nowhere on the invoice does it say such.  The invoice Terms and Conditions do say: “I declare that on my part exchange, the mileage is correct, it is free from lien or legal encumbrances, has no mechanical faults, has not had serious accident damage and is safe to drive on the road.”

 

He has sent us a screen shot to show the car was a CAT D insurance write off in May 2017, and that we bought the car February 2018.

<snip>

He is trying to use your declaration  "has not had serious accident damage" as a stick to beat you because he spent 14 days not doing any checks before he did the deal, and has now found out it was a write-off.

IMHO if he takes it to court it will be an unreasonable stance as you did not know about the write-off when you bought the car and you have found nothing to indicate that it was a write-off since- so you should win.

There is also the possibility that the write-off was not for "serious accident damage" anyway, it could have been written off because they couldn't get a small part within a reasonable time, or it could have been stolen and not recovered quickly.

An expensive lesson in due diligence for the dealer- (he should re-write the contract to specifically mention insurance write-off as well as serious damage for the future too)

Sad__Sam

Maxmycardagain: He is correct. I don’t have the invoice from over 6 years ago. I'm usually good at keeping such, but not so on this occasion.

 

DullGreyGuy: I agree. More fool me, lesson learnt.  I did HPI the new purchase.

I had a Nissan X-Trail years ago, got rear ended, insurance wrote it of for a scratched bumper. I kept it, as it was a brilliant car, perfect for us. I never fixed the scratch.

 

Sheramber:

Screen shot taken today @ 14.32.51 trade.motorcheck.co.uk/app/report/

Shows WRITE-OFF (MIAFTR)

Screen shot taken today @ 14.33.25 hpi.co.uk/trade/hpisecure/historyviewdetail.do

 

Façade: Thank you for clarity. When you sit to close to the situation, its hard to see the wood for the trees. Just a scenario we don’t need.

Grumpy_chap

Have you done your own HPI (or equivalent) check on the old car?  If you have not, then do that now.

You will then have some evidence as to whether the screenshot the Dealer has shared is an error.

At that point, when you know the true status of the car, you can assess your next move.

HHarry

As a motor trader he is deemed the ‘expert’ and if he’s failed to do his due diligence that’s his tough luck.  Refer him to Arkell vs Pressdram, and only worry about it if he takes further action (as in submits a claim, not further messages or letters)

caprikid1

"Arkell vs Pressdram" Whilst humorous probably not appropriate without context;

Herzlos

He's deemed the expert and should have done his due dilligence before buying - he had all the details and saw the car first.

Where did you buy the car from? Another dealer or privately? Did you do an HPI then or now?

Also, £6k is a huge valuation difference between a cat D and not, how much was the trade in and what's the car?


So legally it's on him, the only difficultly will come in with any good will on your new car, they are going to be stubborn if you need to take it back to them for anything. Given the stack of paperwork it's probably a decent car and for £6k you're almost certainly better treating it as having no warranty. 

Your other option if you're worried about any repercussions on the new car is to see if they'll unwind the deal - give you your old car and the money back and you return the new car minus some cash for mileage done in it. But I'd only do that if making it clear and having him confirm that you're helping him fix his mess, because you're in a good mood and don't want the hassle.

lordmountararat

that we pacifically make reference

I would be wary of a dealer who didn't know the difference between 'specifically' and 'pacifically'. Are they some back street outfit?