Paypal Friends and family payment - how to claim this back

bertiewill

I (well a family member) paid £44 for something which was a scam, no goods received. The payment was made via Paypal F&F. I claimed the money back through my bank who initially credited it back to me but now say they intend to re debit it "We're sorry we can't recover your disputed payment". Just wondering what the best way of getting my money back is? 

Is my best bet to continue with the bank (Barclays) or go to Paypal. What form of words should I use & How should I make the communication to resolve this?

TIA

Voyager2002

You have lost the money.

Paypal F and F is for, well, friends and family. The fees are lower than for commercial payments, and in return you lose the right to recover funds if things go wrong.

Spoonie_Turtle

As far as I know you can only get back a Friends and Family payment if it was due to 'unauthorised activity', i.e. the account was hacked.

cymruchris

Yes - gone, gone, gone.

Friends and family, the fee free route, is, as the name suggests, for paying friends and family - ie people you know and trust.

Regular goods and services payments that attract fees are for paying people you don't know.

The fees are there partially to cover protection of goods or services not received (as in this case).

By circumventing the fees - you've left yourself with no protection. 

Luckily it was £44 not £444 or £4444.

soolin

cymruchris said:

Yes - gone, gone, gone.

Friends and family, the fee free route, is, as the name suggests, for paying friends and family - ie people you know and trust.

Regular goods and services payments that attract fees are for paying people you don't know.

The fees are there partially to cover protection of goods or services not received (as in this case).

By circumventing the fees - you've left yourself with no protection. 

Luckily it was £44 not £444 or £4444.

I agree the money is lost but buyer doesn’t pay fees, the seller does so buyer didn’t even save anything b using F and F. 

prowla

If the person isn't your Friend or Family then you shouldn't use Friends & Family.

Of course the scammer will come across as the most trustworthy friend you've ever had in the whole wide world, at least until they've got your money.

As it is a scam, you should report it to Action Fraud; they may not do much immediately, as they collate info and farm it out to local police, but you will have a crime reference number.

The CRN may change the bank's perspective.

If you find other people who have been scammed the same, then you might be able to get together to take action.

You might also find some background info on the scammer.

Also, never pay anything from a bank account - use a credit card, as that gives extra protections.

If you bought via a site (eBay, etc.) then raise a complaint with them; it might stop or at least impede the perpetrator for a while.

As regards spotting scammers, beware of things like account profiles with no info, new profiles with no history, joining groups and suddenly selling things, real bargain prices, not offering personal collection, miraculously being at or just having moved to the opposite end of the country (Skye is a good one!), AI-generated descriptions, etc.

elsien

Just in case the OP isn’t sure of the difference between a charge back and a section 75 claim on a credit card. 

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/our-expertise/cards/chargeback-and-section-75

Marksfish

Anyone who want friends and family payments. If I decide to continue with a purchase from them, I use  https://www.clothnappytree.com/ppcalculator/ , add the fees myself and send it as a normal payment. that way, the seller gets the money they want and you get the protection.

Lonelygambler

You can start a charge back with F&F. You do this through your bank, it is likely Paypal will close your account. It can be done. 

soolin

Lonelygambler said:

You can start a charge back with F&F. You do this through your bank, it is likely Paypal will close your account. It can be done. 

According to the OP a claim via their bank was made and then denied. An F and F isn’t easy to claim back unless buyer shows an account hack, it isn’t sufficient to merely say they made a mistake or sent it didn't get anything in return. An F and F payment is not linked to any goods or services, and is deemed a gift so you can’t even claim you received nothing in return, as nothing was expected. 

prowla

soolin said:

Lonelygambler said:

You can start a charge back with F&F. You do this through your bank, it is likely Paypal will close your account. It can be done. 

According to the OP a claim via their bank was made and then denied. An F and F isn’t easy to claim back unless buyer shows an account hack, it isn’t sufficient to merely say they made a mistake or sent it didn't get anything in return. An F and F payment is not linked to any goods or services, and is deemed a gift so you can’t even claim you received nothing in return, as nothing was expected. 

Hence reporting to Action Fraud and getting a CRN to show that it was a scam.