RTM Private parking company

Coupon-mad

Derogation from grant.  

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/3-107-6097?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)

vaders

LDast said:

vaders said:

Also with the 75% needed to vary the lease, do homeowners with driveways have to be consulted also? 

If a homeowner does not reply to the consultation, does that mean they lose the right to vote for or against?

i.e if the consultation generates 10 replies and all 10 say they are for, is that 100% and they are legally able to implement the parking control?
Or do they still need 93 out of the 124 properties to get this in place?

It is not a simple "consultation". It is a full legal process by Tribunal. Every leaseholder has to be involved. By "homeowner", do you mean leaseholder?

If you read the legislation it is a double requirement. In the case of leaseholders rather than tenants, it says:

Any such application shall only be made if in a case where the application is in respect of more than eight leases, it is not opposed for any reason by more than 10 per cent of the total number of the parties concerned AND at least 75 per cent of that number consent to it.

All the houses are freehold and all the flats are leasehold.

The parking spot according to my title plan says “and shall include for the purpose of grant only”
I'm certain the parking space is not freehold. There’s actually no restriction of any sort to say I can’t put a shed on it though. 

pinkelephant12

Residents could be advised to opt their parking space out of the scheme.  If enough people opt out, the scheme becomes unworkable.

I write from experience.

I own a freehold house on a mixed freehold and leasehold estate.  I do not own my allocated numbered parking space but have exclusive use of it and it is identified on title documents.

When a PPC was appointed without consultation with residents I opted my space out of the scheme and the managing agent instructed the PPC not to monitor my parking space as it was not part of their contract.

The PPC ignored this instruction and I received several parking tickets for parking lawfully in my own space.  They were all cancelled, but it caused considerable inconvenience, distress and financial loss.

I sued the PPC and was awarded a 4 figure sum in damages at the County Court. The PPC’s legal fees came to over £17,000.  

The contract with the PPC allowed them to reclaim any losses they incurred from residents.  They couldn’t do this in my case because the PPC had breached the contract.  However, there is the potential for residents to receive a very large bill.

The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill is currently nearing the end of its passage through Parliament and will likely become law soon.  It will give freeholders on managed estates the right to go to the First Tier Tribunal (like leaseholders) to challenge unreasonable fees. This might include fees incurred for appointing a PPC.  This would greatly inconvenience those who manage the estate.

If the site is managed by a company of which you are a member and the directors are breaching their duties causing loss to the company, you have the power to apply to court for permission to bring a derivative action on behalf of the company against the directors.  They could be held personally liable.

These are all points you could raise to put a stop to this nonsense.

daveyjp

O/T but, If the PPC was appointed without undergoing due process it is highly likely the residents have a claim against the mamanaging agent if they tried to bill them for legal costs as a result of their negligence.

That's however a battle they will have to fight.

vaders

pinkelephant12 said:

Residents could be advised to opt their parking space out of the scheme.  If enough people opt out, the scheme becomes unworkable.

I write from experience.

I own a freehold house on a mixed freehold and leasehold estate.  I do not own my allocated numbered parking space but have exclusive use of it and it is identified on title documents.

When a PPC was appointed without consultation with residents I opted my space out of the scheme and the managing agent instructed the PPC not to monitor my parking space as it was not part of their contract.

The PPC ignored this instruction and I received several parking tickets for parking lawfully in my own space.  They were all cancelled, but it caused considerable inconvenience, distress and financial loss.

I sued the PPC and was awarded a 4 figure sum in damages at the County Court. The PPC’s legal fees came to over £17,000.  

The contract with the PPC allowed them to reclaim any losses they incurred from residents.  They couldn’t do this in my case because the PPC had breached the contract.  However, there is the potential for residents to receive a very large bill.

The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill is currently nearing the end of its passage through Parliament and will likely become law soon.  It will give freeholders on managed estates the right to go to the First Tier Tribunal (like leaseholders) to challenge unreasonable fees. This might include fees incurred for appointing a PPC.  This would greatly inconvenience those who manage the estate.

If the site is managed by a company of which you are a member and the directors are breaching their duties causing loss to the company, you have the power to apply to court for permission to bring a derivative action on behalf of the company against the directors.  They could be held personally liable.

These are all points you could raise to put a stop to this nonsense.

Our estate shares the same setup.

I’m actually part of the 4 person RMC. 

It’s 3v1 

Now that I think about it, a survey was conducted as per my first post, not an actual consultation?

The three questions posed were
as follows.

How often do you face issues of not being able to parking in your allocated parking space.

Would you like to see some form of parking control implemented at the Estate

If Parking Control was going to be implemented at the Estate would you select Option 1 or 2?

Option 1 being Warden Patrolling

Option 2 being Option 2 - Barrier Installation

This should make the idea null and void?

pinkelephant12

vaders said:

Our estate shares the same setup.

I’m actually part of the 4 person RMC. Everyone see my view on this.

Now that I think about it, a survey was conducted as per my first post, not an actual consultation?

The three questions posed were
as follows.

How often do you face issues of not being able to parking in your allocated parking space.

Would you like to see some form of parking control implemented at the Estate

If Parking Control was going to be implemented at the Estate would you select Option 1 or 2?

Option 1 being Warden Patrolling

Option 2 being Option 2 - Barrier Installation

This should make the idea null and void?

Why are these the only options?

In my case, the PPC was fired and we resumed managing parking ourselves via our managing agent.  It works well.  If a resident parks unlawfully, they get a polite letter and that usually resolves it.  If a non-resident parks unlawfully, photos are taken as evidence by the resident who has been inconvenienced (no need for a warden), the managing agent obtains the name and address of the vehicle's keeper from DVLA for £2.50 and sends a warning letter.  We have never had to take it any further.  

fisherjim

pinkelephant12 said:

vaders said:

Our estate shares the same setup.

I’m actually part of the 4 person RMC. Everyone see my view on this.

Now that I think about it, a survey was conducted as per my first post, not an actual consultation?

The three questions posed were
as follows.

How often do you face issues of not being able to parking in your allocated parking space.

Would you like to see some form of parking control implemented at the Estate

If Parking Control was going to be implemented at the Estate would you select Option 1 or 2?

Option 1 being Warden Patrolling

Option 2 being Option 2 - Barrier Installation

This should make the idea null and void?

Why are these the only options?

In my case, the PPC was fired and we resumed managing parking ourselves via our managing agent.  It works well.  If a resident parks unlawfully, they get a polite letter and that usually resolves it.  If a non-resident parks unlawfully, photos are taken as evidence by the resident who has been inconvenienced (no need for a warden), the managing agent obtains the name and address of the vehicle's keeper from DVLA for £2.50 and sends a warning letter.  We have never had to take it any further.  

"Unlawfully"?

pinkelephant12

@fisherjim 'Unlawfully' for a resident would be in breach of the estate's covenants, for a non-resident it would be trespass.

Umkomaas

pinkelephant12 said:

vaders said:

Our estate shares the same setup.

I’m actually part of the 4 person RMC. Everyone see my view on this.

Now that I think about it, a survey was conducted as per my first post, not an actual consultation?

The three questions posed were
as follows.

How often do you face issues of not being able to parking in your allocated parking space.

Would you like to see some form of parking control implemented at the Estate

If Parking Control was going to be implemented at the Estate would you select Option 1 or 2?

Option 1 being Warden Patrolling

Option 2 being Option 2 - Barrier Installation

This should make the idea null and void?

Why are these the only options?

In my case, the PPC was fired and we resumed managing parking ourselves via our managing agent.  It works well.  If a resident parks unlawfully, they get a polite letter and that usually resolves it.  If a non-resident parks unlawfully, photos are taken as evidence by the resident who has been inconvenienced (no need for a warden), the managing agent obtains the name and address of the vehicle's keeper from DVLA for £2.50 and sends a warning letter.  We have never had to take it any further.  

Seems a sensible solution that works. Example to other residential sites plagued by resident-hungry PPCs. 

pinkelephant12

Another thing to bear in mind when considering what to do about parking is the need to maintain good relationships.  After all, you have to live in close proximity to your neighbours, so you don’t want to create an environment of mistrust and ill-will.

Although there had been previous problems on the estate where I live, I had put up with them in the name of ‘neighbourliness’.  The parking tickets at my home were the final straw.  I had never sued anyone before I got the parking tickets, but I was very angry about the improper appointment of the parking company and the way the law was repeatedly broken, to my detriment.  My patience ran out.  I have since sued the residential property management company twice and won on each occasion. 

Try to reach a solution that doesn’t destroy relationships.