What can home owners do about noisy tenants?

GDB2222

As a landlord, I can say from experience that there is very little a landlord can do about their tenant's behaviour. The tenant may still be in the fixed term of the contract. Even if that doesn’t apply, it can take months to evict the tenant - and that’s assuming that the paperwork is all 100% perfect. 

Whilst the tenancy agreement may require the tenant not to disturb other residents unduly, it is very difficult to prove. 

As others have said, the starting point is to study your lease, as it may require carpeting rather than laminate. If so, the chances are almost 100% that the same applies to upstairs. 

chrisw

GDB2222 said:

As a landlord, I can say from experience that there is very little a landlord can do about their tenant's behaviour. The tenant may still be in the fixed term of the contract. Even if that doesn’t apply, it can take months to evict the tenant - and that’s assuming that the paperwork is all 100% perfect. 

Whilst the tenancy agreement may require the tenant not to disturb other residents unduly, it is very difficult to prove. 

As others have said, the starting point is to study your lease, as it may require carpeting rather than laminate. If so, the chances are almost 100% that the same applies to upstairs. 

There may be very little legally a landlord can do but I've had chats with a couple of tenants over the years warning them about their behaviour and it's worked.
However, that's assuming they acknowledge it's antisocial behaviour, they might consider a child running round as part of life.

pinkshoes

I owned a top floor flat. The flat next door was rented out. The first tenants were lovely. The next lot were awful. Out on their balcony smoking all the time then dropping cigarette buts off the balcony into the flowerbed below, and making a lot of noise late at night. 

I knew their LL (as it was a block of 15 flats where most the owners were directors of the management company) so I mentioned it to him as did other owner-occupiers. After no improvement the tenants were issued an S21 and moved out after their initial 6 month tenancy. The next lot of tenants were lovely. 

@littlemissbliss - they may not speak English very well, but why not go round with a cake and some flowers to introduce yourself properly? After all, you've only lived there a few days! Language isn't a barrier - Google translate is very useful. A note can be seen as exceptionally rude, especially if you haven't made the effort to get to know them, and especially as if English is not their first language and the note might be mis-interpreted.

GDB2222

chrisw said:

GDB2222 said:

As a landlord, I can say from experience that there is very little a landlord can do about their tenant's behaviour. The tenant may still be in the fixed term of the contract. Even if that doesn’t apply, it can take months to evict the tenant - and that’s assuming that the paperwork is all 100% perfect. 

Whilst the tenancy agreement may require the tenant not to disturb other residents unduly, it is very difficult to prove. 

As others have said, the starting point is to study your lease, as it may require carpeting rather than laminate. If so, the chances are almost 100% that the same applies to upstairs. 

There may be very little legally a landlord can do but I've had chats with a couple of tenants over the years warning them about their behaviour and it's worked.
However, that's assuming they acknowledge it's antisocial behaviour, they might consider a child running round as part of life.

Yes, agreed. It’s worth a shot.

littlemissbliss

Newbie_John said:

So you said it's constant noise but then also that the kid goes to school, kid also likely is asleep 21-7, what time does it affect you?
If you come back from work at 6pm, and we're talking about 1/2 hours in the evening - is there something you could change in your life? Go to the gym, do shopping.. or buy them Xbox?

Some of my friends had a similar experience with neighbours who were arguing every evening, at some point they called the police as they fought something serious is happening and it got much worse from then, neighbours got really vicious, called police multiple times on them and they ended up selling the place after living there under a year.

Saying that, I really hope the note helps to improve current situation.

That’s what I was talking about having bought the property. I don’t see why I should have to manoeuvre around her kids after taking out a 300k mortgage. 

The noise is first thing in the morning, in the evening and then all day at the weekends. It’s really not on. I use to live above someone in a flat and I was always mindful of others. 

littlemissbliss

housebuyer143 said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

It could be the child has additional needs and therefore probably is jumping up and down. It's something which while isn't fair on you is impossible to stop. 
My son is autistic and all day it sounds like a heard of elephants banging around upstairs - literally like he might come through the floor.. I'm used to it now but it's definitely disruptive. We had to option to get a detached house so as not to burden our neighbours, but many people as you can no doubt understand, do not have such options. 

housebuyer143 said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

It could be the child has additional needs and therefore probably is jumping up and down. It's something which while isn't fair on you is impossible to stop. 
My son is autistic and all day it sounds like a heard of elephants banging around upstairs - literally like he might come through the floor.. I'm used to it now but it's definitely disruptive. We had to option to get a detached house so as not to burden our neighbours, but many people as you can no doubt understand, do not have such options. 

I have anxiety disorder and don’t like loud noises. Hence why I said it’s driving me mad. I don’t think anyone should have to suffer. I do feel this is a parenting thing, and just being mindful. I have an autistic cousin and nethew so I understand the challenge, but I don’t know for sure if it’s that….plus it’s 2 kids not just one. 

littlemissbliss

_Penny_Dreadful said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

The negative comments are a response to your negative attitude of home owners >> tenants.  Just because you’ve taken out a mortgage to buy a lease doesn’t mean that you somehow have more rights than someone with an AST.  Should tenants have to put up with noisy leaseholders simply because the leaseholder has a mortgage? If you have a noisy neighbour in England the avenues open to you are the same as if the people living upstairs were leaseholders like yourself or tenants.  Neither the landlord nor the letting agency acting on the landlord’s behalf have any legal obligation to do anything about your complaint. Rather than sticking a note through their letterbox why not introduce yourself to your new neighbours and speak to them face to face? 

If after speaking with your neighbours that doesn’t work then you can contact your council’s environmental health team but I’m not sure if the council will do anything about noise coming from children. It can be difficult enough to get councils to do something about heavy metal being blasted at 3am never mind children being noisy.  

@propertyrental asked about flooring requirements in the lease. If the leases specify that floors should be carpeted but the flat upstairs is not that’s one avenue to pursue via the freeholder.  Living in a flat you might also want to consider soundproofing your home to keep other people’s noise out. 

_Penny_Dreadful said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

The negative comments are a response to your negative attitude of home owners >> tenants.  Just because you’ve taken out a mortgage to buy a lease doesn’t mean that you somehow have more rights than someone with an AST.  Should tenants have to put up with noisy leaseholders simply because the leaseholder has a mortgage? If you have a noisy neighbour in England the avenues open to you are the same as if the people living upstairs were leaseholders like yourself or tenants.  Neither the landlord nor the letting agency acting on the landlord’s behalf have any legal obligation to do anything about your complaint. Rather than sticking a note through their letterbox why not introduce yourself to your new neighbours and speak to them face to face? 

If after speaking with your neighbours that doesn’t work then you can contact your council’s environmental health team but I’m not sure if the council will do anything about noise coming from children. It can be difficult enough to get councils to do something about heavy metal being blasted at 3am never mind children being noisy.  

@propertyrental asked about flooring requirements in the lease. If the leases specify that floors should be carpeted but the flat upstairs is not that’s one avenue to pursue via the freeholder.  Living in a flat you might also want to consider soundproofing your home to keep other people’s noise out. 

_Penny_Dreadful said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

The negative comments are a response to your negative attitude of home owners >> tenants.  Just because you’ve taken out a mortgage to buy a lease doesn’t mean that you somehow have more rights than someone with an AST.  Should tenants have to put up with noisy leaseholders simply because the leaseholder has a mortgage? If you have a noisy neighbour in England the avenues open to you are the same as if the people living upstairs were leaseholders like yourself or tenants.  Neither the landlord nor the letting agency acting on the landlord’s behalf have any legal obligation to do anything about your complaint. Rather than sticking a note through their letterbox why not introduce yourself to your new neighbours and speak to them face to face? 

If after speaking with your neighbours that doesn’t work then you can contact your council’s environmental health team but I’m not sure if the council will do anything about noise coming from children. It can be difficult enough to get councils to do something about heavy metal being blasted at 3am never mind children being noisy.  

@propertyrental asked about flooring requirements in the lease. If the leases specify that floors should be carpeted but the flat upstairs is not that’s one avenue to pursue via the freeholder.  Living in a flat you might also want to consider soundproofing your home to keep other people’s noise out. 

_Penny_Dreadful said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

The negative comments are a response to your negative attitude of home owners >> tenants.  Just because you’ve taken out a mortgage to buy a lease doesn’t mean that you somehow have more rights than someone with an AST.  Should tenants have to put up with noisy leaseholders simply because the leaseholder has a mortgage? If you have a noisy neighbour in England the avenues open to you are the same as if the people living upstairs were leaseholders like yourself or tenants.  Neither the landlord nor the letting agency acting on the landlord’s behalf have any legal obligation to do anything about your complaint. Rather than sticking a note through their letterbox why not introduce yourself to your new neighbours and speak to them face to face? 

If after speaking with your neighbours that doesn’t work then you can contact your council’s environmental health team but I’m not sure if the council will do anything about noise coming from children. It can be difficult enough to get councils to do something about heavy metal being blasted at 3am never mind children being noisy.  

@propertyrental asked about flooring requirements in the lease. If the leases specify that floors should be carpeted but the flat upstairs is not that’s one avenue to pursue via the freeholder.  Living in a flat you might also want to consider soundproofing your home to keep other people’s noise out. 

I have rented for 20 years, so I am by no means implying that homeowners are better. What I am saying is after you have grinded to save up and taken out a large mortgage, I don’t feel it’s right or fair to simply just ignore it, change my routine or buy a set of headphones. We all have to be mindful of our surroundings and no one should suffer in their own home, be it rent or buy. Renters do have more flexibility to move if there is a problem though. It’s not like I can just up sticks and leave. 

Thank you for your suggestions
I need to take a look at the lease which I will do once I have internet as it’s all online. I have literally only been here a few days. 

littlemissbliss

RHemmings said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

I prickled a bit when I saw your 'homeowner' comment. When I rented I lived next door to someone who would frequently say that anything he said should take precedence over what I said because he was a home-owner and I was 'only renting'. It seems that others have had the same reaction. Remember that we only see what you write in forums, and can't read your mind. The bit in bold above, again, would give me the impression that you believe having purchased a house and having a mortgage gives you additional rights. If I hadn't seen other things that you've written. I'm not surprised that others are also reacting to that a bit. 

I had a look at the possibility of soundproofing a ceiling. It seems that it's most effective against airborne noise, which your noise isn't. I've seen mixed opinions on the effectiveness of sound-proofing against thumping sounds. Very mixed. Some claim that it will make a significant difference, particularly companies that well it. Some say it will make no real difference. It might be worth looking into further. 

OP - surely you have evidence of when you viewed the house - presumably multiple times. Were these all scheduled during school hours or other times that the children weren't at home. It might slightly indicate that your sellers knew there was a problem and avoided you finding out. I guess that they did not mention the noise in their TA10 form. 

It could be that the noise is a statutory nuisance, and therefore the council may be able to do something. It depends on whether your council agrees with that. See, e.g., https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/home-safety/neighbour-disputes/  (I'm not suggesting that you are old, just that's where I found a reference. The council may take the position (and potentially reasonably) that children are expected to make some noise, and provided that it's not at all times of the night that this is not a statutory nuisance. But, you can go through the process. 

RHemmings said:

littlemissbliss said:

I am not sure why the negative comments. It was a question about a serious problem, which I wasn’t aware of when I bought the flat. It’s quite upsetting actually. I live down south where my work is, try buying a house. 

The noise is a bit more then family noise, it’s horrendous to the point of driving me mad, it’s constant. It sounds like the kids are playing and jumping off the sofa or bed onto the floor and sounds like the ceiling is caving in. No one should have to deal with that, whether you rent or buy. I rented for 20 years in a converted house, so I know what it’s like. Normal movements is fine, but this is bad. This is a persons whole body weight. 

I don’t feel more entitled, but saving for a deposit is hard and takes years, and when your taking out a mortgage the last thing you want to feel is that you can’t spend time in your new home because of the noise being so bad! I appreciate the headphone suggestions, but I can’t wear headphones all day every day. 

I have penned a very kind message in a card, and will see if that helps. If not I will have to take it further. At the moment I don’t know who their letting agency is, I am hoping my estate agents can help me with that. 

I prickled a bit when I saw your 'homeowner' comment. When I rented I lived next door to someone who would frequently say that anything he said should take precedence over what I said because he was a home-owner and I was 'only renting'. It seems that others have had the same reaction. Remember that we only see what you write in forums, and can't read your mind. The bit in bold above, again, would give me the impression that you believe having purchased a house and having a mortgage gives you additional rights. If I hadn't seen other things that you've written. I'm not surprised that others are also reacting to that a bit. 

I had a look at the possibility of soundproofing a ceiling. It seems that it's most effective against airborne noise, which your noise isn't. I've seen mixed opinions on the effectiveness of sound-proofing against thumping sounds. Very mixed. Some claim that it will make a significant difference, particularly companies that well it. Some say it will make no real difference. It might be worth looking into further. 

OP - surely you have evidence of when you viewed the house - presumably multiple times. Were these all scheduled during school hours or other times that the children weren't at home. It might slightly indicate that your sellers knew there was a problem and avoided you finding out. I guess that they did not mention the noise in their TA10 form. 

It could be that the noise is a statutory nuisance, and therefore the council may be able to do something. It depends on whether your council agrees with that. See, e.g., https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/home-safety/neighbour-disputes/  (I'm not suggesting that you are old, just that's where I found a reference. The council may take the position (and potentially reasonably) that children are expected to make some noise, and provided that it's not at all times of the night that this is not a statutory nuisance. But, you can go through the process. 

Thank you I will take a look.

i did view the property a few times, but i was travelling from the north to the south and could only do the afternoon (when they would have been at school). I mean it’s really bad. I have lived in a converted flat for the past 20 years and it was nothing like this, and this is purpose built!

The only reason I mentioned homebuyers is because we can’t just easily move, not to mention the years of grinding to save up and take out a huge mortgage. I have been a loyal tenant for 20 years so by no means belittling tenants. But if I was a tenant now, I could move in 6 months. After you buy your first home you don’t want to feel like you have to go through all that again. 

littlemissbliss

itsthelittlethings said:

Noise nuisance is a council matter. Having said that, it’s a bit much calling the council for kids playing! I do sympathise though. When you’re stressed anyway additional stress is not what you need.

I know, it’s difficult because the lady seems sweet. But it’s so bad. I have a card and I’ll pop a polite note in there, might be less awkward than doing it face to face. Plus her English isn’t great I don’t think 

littlemissbliss

GDB2222 said:

As a landlord, I can say from experience that there is very little a landlord can do about their tenant's behaviour. The tenant may still be in the fixed term of the contract. Even if that doesn’t apply, it can take months to evict the tenant - and that’s assuming that the paperwork is all 100% perfect. 

Whilst the tenancy agreement may require the tenant not to disturb other residents unduly, it is very difficult to prove. 

As others have said, the starting point is to study your lease, as it may require carpeting rather than laminate. If so, the chances are almost 100% that the same applies to upstairs. 

I feel for landlords, my mum is one herself and I know it’s going to get even harder to evict tenants. I can see this becoming a bigger issue among homeowners and tenants (or just everyone). I will be going over my lease once I have my internet connected