Best electricity tariff for grade 1 listed home - complex meter

rubyjones13

Hi all, we live in a grade 1 listed cottage with a complex electricity only meter. We have a day and night rate. We're currently with EDF but our electricity bills in the winter are over £300 and we don't use the storage heaters in the cottage. We have one new oil filled standalone radiator that we use (it's quite new so shouldn't zap that much energy!), and we use an electric blanket so this does seem very expensive. I've just seen the below, but we can't have a smart meter fitted (despite their pestering) due to the nature of the property. Does any have any advice? 

New. EDF Essentials 1Yr May25 fix (unlikely to be around long) - New & existing customers - Dual fuel or elec-only - Monthly Direct Debit or pay in receipt of bills or smart prepay - Need have/apply for smart meter

7% less on average £25/fuel early-exit fees

£10/fuel, so £20 dual fuel

Scot_39

The first thing you need to do is stop relying on generic pricing estimates and focus on specifics.

Actual unit rates, standing charges and consumption.

You say are on complex metering but not what tariff - do you have multirate electric with  different peak off peak pricing - and with EDF is that legacy like E10 E2020 etc or more standard E7.

If have multirate pricing what is your peak / off peak split in kWh annually.


My current unit rates on E10 with EOn are c32p and c16p - but I use c75% annually at the 16p off peak rate.

So for me it's worth staying on multirate.


(With HW immersion all year round - in summer that mix drops to c50% - occassionalkymeaning SR would be cheaper in odd weeks - but with NSH in winter in a cold snap - peaks over 90% occassionally.)

With using just 1 plug in - that doesn't sound like a lot - but fear you could mistakenly be using most of your energy in winter at the peak rate - so paying the c32p type level rather than current single rate average - c23.8p here - 8p less per unit - but regional ave c24.5p.

Put simply paying for heating at peak day rate electric is generally the most expensive option possible.

And far too many have regretted removing NSH and replacing them  with conventional panels - even those that claim things like high efficiency based cost savings.

But need to look over total annual consumption.

Not using night storage heaters could be a bad mistake - and an upgrade to a modern one in main living space might be a very good investment - in terms of contrallability and greatly reduced user intervention on settings as weather / temps fluctuate - to benefit from multirate tariffs.

And your plug in heater is no more or less efficient in converting electricity to heat than others - short of heat pump type technology.

It will use exactly the same kWh to heat your room to target as any other conventional electric heater - including even an old let alone new NSH over any reasonable time  - like full day.


PS Why does grade 1 stop them fitting a smart meter (guessing internal only - but so are many in non listed)  - or you applying - worst case it cannot get a signal - so operates in dumb mode.   And what if any impact would status have on ASHP type heating installation ?

MattMattMattUK

rubyjones13 said:

Hi all, we live in a grade 1 listed cottage with a complex electricity only meter. We have a day and night rate. 

When you say complex, do you mean E7, or something else?

rubyjones13 said:

We're currently with EDF but our electricity bills in the winter are over £300 and we don't use the storage heaters in the cottage.

If you are heating your home using the very expensive day rate and not using the storage heaters then that would explain the very high bills.

rubyjones13 said:

We have one new oil filled standalone radiator that we use (it's quite new so shouldn't zap that much energy!),

Electric heating is all the same, 1kWh of electricity in, 1kWh of heat out, newness or marketing magic cannot change that. 

rubyjones13 said:

and we use an electric blanket so this does seem very expensive.

This seems odd, most electric blankets are in the 150-250w range, that means that they would need to be on for 4-6.6 hours to use a kWh.

rubyjones13 said:

I've just seen the below, but we can't have a smart meter fitted (despite their pestering) due to the nature of the property.

There is no reason why an existing E7 supply, or a Grade 1 Listed property cannot have a smart meter, but being G1 you would need to jump through the usual hoops for doing anything with a listed property. 

rubyjones13 said:

Does any have any advice?

Firstly you need to work out exactly what your supply is. Can you also quote your split of day/night in kWh over the whole year.

rubyjones13 said:

New. EDF Essentials 1Yr May25 fix (unlikely to be around long) - New & existing customers - Dual fuel or elec-only - Monthly Direct Debit or pay in receipt of bills or smart prepay - Need have/apply for smart meter

7% less on average £25/fuel early-exit fees

£10/fuel, so £20 dual fuel

The fix is probably not worth it, or only marginally, but without the actual rates and your kWh usage we cannot run the numbers for you. 

rubyjones13

Thank you both for your comments. We rent from the National Trust so cannot upgrade the heaters - we've had an engineer out to look at them, but the current storage heaters despite not being very old are incredibly inneffective. We used them in our first year here and they would pump out heat at strange times, and also pump out cold air during the day too. 

Here are our rates - I don't know if this looks good or terrible as this isn't an area I've got a lot of experience in. 

Off peak - unit price: 17.83p per kw/h includes vat 

Off peak times 
GMT - 12.30am - 7.30am 
GMT + 1 - Summertime - 1.30am - 8.30am 

Standard - daily standing charge is 51.62 p per day and 28.41p per kw/h includes vat

The reason we cannot have a smart meter is that someone came out to have a look and just said it's not possible with our current meter types... I don't really know why! I also called EDF to arrange for them to do it and they said they couldn't. Would it be worth exploring again/pushing for more info? 

Scot_39

The key question is still your peak off peak mix - how many kWh at each rate - if want to compare vs single rate (*)

To compare against any like for like fix - however - simply compare unit rates and standing charges.

But remember lock In unit rates and SC - so bear in mind those exit fees.

Check your last bill - or if edf like EOn - your last annual price update statement  - and work out the average unit price you are currently paying.

Aver = (peak units x peak rate + off peak units x off peak rate ) / total units used


Regardless of metering suplliers are obligated to allow many ol complex metering setups at single rate if that would suit.

But that isn't me recommending that option. I still use expensive E10 - about 4p more expensive than e7 with EOn last quarter ofv peak - and my c25 yr old NSH 

Your times suggest Economy 7 / E7 metering- that should be in tariff name ?

But that also suggests more modern e7 metering should be an option.

(*) But note as renting - you will need landlords permissions - to switch meters.  And even switching to SR on existing meters might be a problem if risk you cannot switch back at end of tennancy to current deal.

But unlike some twin meter systems it at least looks like not paying 2 standing charges.



Most suplliers have been struggling with the most complex metering arrangements as they have been standardising on smart meters that now essentially only support single rate or simple e7 systems.  Many are therefore struggling with complex dual metef and RTS metering upgrades - as deadlines for switch off come and go.

[But some meter fitters are better at working that out than others too.  Even 5 or so years ago when I lost my twin meter rts setup - they would not replace it with a meter capable of fully supporting the 3 different wiring zones in my house - for normal, water immersion and night storage heaters.  And 2 of the 3 fitter visits were aborted when those meter fitters couldn't work out how to fit my then digital not smart e10 meter.  In end an out of region fitter specialising in complex metering came from c35-40 miles away.  The first fitter lived in my town, the second came c10 miles.]


What is your tariff name ?

What are your heater models ?  Is it perhaps just a configuration / setting issue with them ?

They sound fan assisted at least.

rubyjones13

I've had a look at our last bill and the average annual consumption on the 'deemed off peak' meter is 1,957 and the average annual consumption of the 'deemed' meter is 7,931. 

My tariff is called Multi MPAN, deemed off peak and deemed. 

The heaters are CDimplex Quantum, when the engineer visited he said he couldn't see a problem with them or the timings but they were still pumping out cold air. National Trust as a landlord are very slow at fixing these things so if the engineer says no further action, there isn't a whole lot we can do. 

rubyjones13

I spoke with an electrician, and he said our off peak ONLY has our water heater and the storage heaters linked to it. So even if we ran our washing machine at night for example, it would still use the peak meter. 

Scot_39

Re metering

Yes that's not uncommon for older generation twin meter off peak analogue or rts metering setups.

A seperate standard meter drove the rest of the house - sockets, lights, cooker etc.  My old RTS only the HW and NSH circuits.  Both my digital ee10with on board ALCS (switched power output live during off peak times only) and now smart e10 (4 port but output signal driving auxiliary contactor to provide that off peak only supply)  - drive both.

So in itself - if at all similar - it shouldnt stop them being able to fit a standard modern e7 meter with ALCS (load switching) capability though - often a so called 5 port meter  - to provide an output that is live for only the 7 hours.

But given those rates and your current mix not entirely sure worth it.  Standard e7 ofv peak cheaper, standard peak kore expensive.

This Q
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/default/files/2024-03/DM1903-PL1-Standard-(Variable)-Deemed-and-Welcome–non-complex-STD-and-E7.pdf

Last Q
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/default/files/2023-12/DM1920_Standard (Variable), Deemed and Welcome - standard, E7 and prepayment meters.pdf



But note many modern homes on economy 7 do not have any  split / restricted time circuits - 4 port meter, no ALCS internal or external  - it's just a tariff change - so any devices to be run at off peak rate only need suitably set independent timers.



Re Quantums

Those are very well regarded here by many posters.

If they couldnt adapt - and running out of stored heat by evening - perhaps suggests a sizing issue.


Re Mix

Yes that's only c20% off peak.

But the second meter looks remarkably similar to last quarters normal single rate - rather than a peak loading rate.  See edfs single ratevand e7 pricing on links above by region / payment method for comparison.

Is that from a post Apr 1st price update or an older bill ?

And the difference between peak and off peak closer than many standard e7 type rates.



I might be tempted to have another go around the NSH loop with landlord.

But meaningfully suspect you won't really be needing a lot of heat for foreseeable to test them.

rubyjones13

Thank you for your helpful comments. Can you see any obvious reason our bill is so much (is the KW charge exceptionally high or something)? That bill was for last month. 

Scot_39

Electric - especially at levels used when  used for heating is expensive.

And you are using 10,000 kWh per annum.

I use just less than Ofgems 4200kWh median for meter profile class 2 - but that means 17C in living room, cooler elsewhere- too cold for many.

So low a requirement that for most of April I needed no space heating.

But on the few frosty nights did run a plug in oil filled rad rather than nsh - but only for 30min - 1 hour to give a boost.

My neighbours use nearly double that c8000kWh when checked comparison site  - and that's relatively compact modern 90s build 2 bed mid / end terrace with cavity wall, both with DG.

Your c18p rate let alone the 28p rate your likely using your plug in radiator most of the  day - and 80% of units  is much higher than the curent cost of mains gas - around 6p.

Sk yes it's not your total consumption per se - the £1690 headline cap is based on 2700kWh electric and 11500kWh gas - that's 14200kWh - 40% more - it's the unit rates.

As a tennant and in a G1 listed home your options to improve insulation are fairly limited.

So all comes down to how high you heat rooms to  temp wise and the rates you pay for energy to do so.

Your best bet would be trying to shift use from day to night.

To pay 18p not 28p per unit currently.


(And if can shift enough - maybe looking to see if would be cheaper on more standard e7 - paying a larger day premium rate for a cheaper night rate to heat hw tank ? And nsh or alternative tariffs. )

 Switching suppliers is however likely to prove tricky with such a setup.)

But that currently would mean using the nsh more and the plug in less.  Which you say struggled with.

(You might also want to look at HW temps and use, showering durations etc if not tank fed and done at 28p per unit etc.)

The default settings on quantums are iirc for a relatively high 21C in one of the timed modes.

How much did you tweak the settings after install or after you moved in.

Did you even get a manual on install or moving in.  If not download one from Dimplex and have a look at how they were being set to run.

I'd need to look at those rates a bit more carefully later when not on phone to comment more- but just to re-iterate Q -  are figures current or pre Apr 1st ?

EssexHebridean

I would suggest doing some thorough research into the Quantums as a starting point - they are extremely good heaters when set up and used correctly, and will be able to keep your property warm at a fraction of the cost of your existing expensive to use panel heaters. 

On the "pumping out cold air during the day" although this might "feel" cold, it's not actually making the room any cooler as the Quantums don't have the ability to cool the air. it does sound like they are running out of stored heat, though.

Did you realise that the Quantums also have a "boost" option so you can use that if added heat is needed during the day, on a day when insufficient heat has been stored for your needs? 

As a starting point - which profile are you using - "home all day" "out all day"? And what timings do you have set?
Are the heaters running on a single feed or twin feed (can you see one, or two electrical supplies for the heaters?)