Why I ( and others ? ) don’t switch.

Monanore

Thanks everyone ( except JSmithy45AD ) for trying to help.

Especially to @Ozzig. 

Could you tell me a bit more about the "UK providers using UK cloud services" for important email ?

And do you know how I can tell if my phones are DECT ?

Thanks.

Ozzig

Monanore said:

Thanks everyone ( except JSmithy45AD ) for trying to help.

Especially to @Ozzig. 

Could you tell me a bit more about the "UK providers using UK cloud services" for important email ?

And do you know how I can tell if my phones are DECT ?

Thanks.

Probably undue paranoia, but as with most things online solutions can be hosted anywhere, I like the idea the geo is within UK datacentres.
 
The idea that if one datacentre in London breaks, the alternative is in Greenock or Cardiff rather than California.
In the hope my data remains within UK data protection laws. 

It is irrational, I back up pics to Google and use numerous services fronted by CDN that are anywhere and everywhere.

(From memory even BT subbed out BT email to Yahoo a number of years ago before bringing it back in-house.)

Regarding your phone type, put the model number on here and someone will know, or just Google it.

jbrassy

iniltous said:

Absolute nonsense, there is one price list , some are prepared to pay some try and haggle , you may pay £25 , at the moment we have no idea what the OP gets for £65 , if it’s something that the same company also sell for £30 , then that’s the OP inertia, no doubt your  deal with a niche provider will be discounted and when the discount period ends if you do nothing , the price will go up  significantly also your provide also charges for extra for what most would expect to be included in the price .

Are all providers ‘content’ to have customers on out of date , uncompetitive prices ?  , who knows but for every customer called by their ISP offering to renew their  deal for a better price , will be a customer complaint that they are been bothered at home by some salesperson…..customers are advised as the minimum term expires that they may well be on an uncompetitive plan if they do nothing ( switch or recontract ) they will likely pay more than necessary, but to suggest two lists exist and they know who is a switcher and they get better deals than those than don’t switch is for flat earthers and other conspiracy nuts .

What I said is not nonsense. It's literally in every microeconomics textbook. 

You obviously don't know what you're talking about because you then went on to describe exactly what I said. If you stick with the same provider and don't switch, you will pay more than if you do switch.

There are literally two lists of prices. The first list is the introductory deals they offer to new customers. The second list is the deals they offer to existing customers once the introductory deal ends. 

Taking Virgin Media as an example, according to their website, you pay £23.50 for the first 18 months for their M125 broadband, then you pay £54 a month after that - for the same product. So there are literally two different prices for the same product.

You then asked the question whether all providers are content to have customers sat on uncompetitive prices. The obvious answer to that is yes. They make more profit margin from these customers. If a customer decides not to switch after an introductory deal ends, then the price goes up, the provider will make a greater profit margin on that customer. 

Using the above example, Virgin would much rather you paid £54 a month for it's broadband than £23.50. The cost of providing the broadband will remain the same if you remain on the same package so the profit margin goes up.

iniltous

So there is one price list , the rate that prevails after the introductory discount is removed, it doesn’t matter if the discount period is the length of the minimum term or a shorter period , it’s a discount on the ‘price list’ , thats not the same as  having  a rate for switchers and a rate for those that don’t switch l there is indeed a known factor of customer inertia, the fact that lots of people simply can’t be bothered to shop around isn’t limited to communication companies 

JSmithy45AD

Monanore said:

Thanks everyone ( except JSmithy45AD ) for trying to help.

Especially to @Ozzig. 

Could you tell me a bit more about the "UK providers using UK cloud services" for important email ?

And do you know how I can tell if my phones are DECT ?

Thanks.

I guess the truth hurts

You're welcome.

400ixl

jbrassy said:

What I said is not nonsense. It's literally in every microeconomics textbook. 

You obviously don't know what you're talking about because you then went on to describe exactly what I said. If you stick with the same provider and don't switch, you will pay more than if you do switch.

In lots of cases yes, however I have renewed with my existing provider for less you you quoted from OneStream, so not always the case. But doing nothing will by default usually put you on the base contract without the minimum term discount.

There are literally two lists of prices. The first list is the introductory deals they offer to new customers. The second list is the deals they offer to existing customers once the introductory deal ends. 

This can be the case, sometimes ISP's offer the same price to both, but some other incentive such as cashback to new customers so not one size fits all or separate price lists

Taking Virgin Media as an example, according to their website, you pay £23.50 for the first 18 months for their M125 broadband, then you pay £54 a month after that - for the same product. So there are literally two different prices for the same product.

Yes, this is where you are on a base product and then get a discount for a commitment to a minimum term. This is how ISP's like OneStream, BT etc can do their annual CPI+x% increase on the base price and not the discounted price.

Too many people do not read the T&C's of what they are signing up to and believe their discounted price is the base price and when that term ends their contract is up and complain the supplier is putting up their price, rather than just returning them to their base price.

You then asked the question whether all providers are content to have customers sat on uncompetitive prices. The obvious answer to that is yes. They make more profit margin from these customers. If a customer decides not to switch after an introductory deal ends, then the price goes up, the provider will make a greater profit margin on that customer. 

Using the above example, Virgin would much rather you paid £54 a month for it's broadband than £23.50. The cost of providing the broadband will remain the same if you remain on the same package so the profit margin goes up.

Of course they would rather you were paying the base price rather than the discounted price. They rely on people being lazy. Personally as someone who looks to get the best deal I prefer the model where they are fighting over people seeking the discount and can charge those who don't more. This whole approach of treat all equal means the better deals go away as they have to support those who don't look for the best deal.

Some comments in line, mostly agree nut there are some nuances.

400ixl

OP

BT sit somewhere in the middle as far as customer services go given the surveys that happen. They do have some advantages on the Openreach network that their contract gives them some preferential treatment such as weekend resolution. Its not unique to BT, any ISP can contract at that level but many don't.

There are some ISP's you couldn't pay me to join. Vodafone, Shell, Talktalk, Virgin being some examples. On the other hand there are some with excellent reputations and customer service. They do cost more, but likely still less than you pay today. An example is Zen Internet who are UK based and have been around for 20+ years with an excellent reputation.

There are then new ISP's (like Onestream mentioned) where you can only go on a short history for their reputation and some are also on new network provided. It doesn't sound like you are ready for a leap of faith into that world.

As people have advised, getting off BT's email service is a good idea. Sign up to a service like Google's Gmail and then over time log into different websites and change your email address to the new one. Doing the ones you use frequently is a good start, then as new emails come into your BT email go and change those. It won't take long for the vast majority to have moved across. Even if you move provider you can then check the webmail side to spot those you missed.

Reliability wise, switching to full fibre is typically better. The current fibre solution is fibre to a street cabinet and then copper from there to the house (in underground conduits for newer houses) and across telegraph poles for older houses. This copper can degrade over time of get affected by the weather. Full fibre (FTTP) is fibre optic all the way from the exchange to the house, meaning new more reliable cabling all the way. This also brings faster speeds.

There is work going on to look at how phone services can be maintained during a power cut. How important this is depends on your circumstances. Are you vulnerable and / or use equipment that uses the phone system to monitor health for example. Then there is the local side, when did you last have a power cut of any substantial time?

If you go to an FTTP service, the master socket in the house becomes redundant in most cases as you would connect the phone to the router. The challenge here is that the router may well be in an inconvenient place so you may need to think about a longer cable or putting the router in a different locaton. Most existing phones can be made to work with the new router systems.

On the DECT phone question, as people have said check the model number. A good sign is that the main base station plugs into the power and the BT socket. The other device just plug into the power. The DECT part is the wireless connection between the base station phone and the satellite phones around the house. If it is DECT it removes a lot of the complication as you don't need to connect the base phone to the router and the physical old cabling in the house. To the point if it isn't DECT then throw it out and replace it.

As for UK based Email providers. Yes they exist, they have a far higher chance of disappearing though than the likes of Gmail and don't really add anything for the average user. They often have a monthly cost. If they don't then they are likely using one of the major cloud providers storage anyway.

Personally if I was in your shoes, if you are happy with the speed you are getting and have concerns about the power issues for maintaining landline service, I would contact BT and get a new deal which will put you on a discounted 18 month period. You can use that time to then get your email off of BT and see what Openreach come up with for resilient phone systems.

You will then be in a much better position to move when it suits you. The one thing you should not do is nothing, at the very least get the price you pay down.

Monanore

@400ixl
Thank you very much for taking so much trouble to help.  
I think I can see a way forward now !

Ozzig

Just to reiterate, you can keep your BT email service, free for webmail or full client at £7.50 a month if / when you move, allowing you as long as you need to move everything over.

ladruid

The hassle of remembering everybody who has email addresses and converting them. Especially since some are critical to household and financial administration.

Suggest you rip of the bandaid get a none-service-provider email (protonmail if you like security). It's a pain yes... but it gives you more control, more options. Turn your thoughts around, look at the positives, it as an excuse to get rid of all the spam and useless emails you get.

The bad reputation of all the other providers, including EE which BT would force me onto.  I gather BT will continue to service existing retail customers – better the devil you know.

Every company is great till you personally have an issue. People slate Virgin Media or EE, but I've not had an issue with either in years...

The need to move to voip which on switching would be compulsory.  I don’t want to be at risk of a power cut. I don’t know how long before I have no choice in this matter, but I’m dreading it.  I don’t understand the engineering changes and I can’t find a proper explanation.  It all sounds fragile and risky to me.

If you already use a phone with a powered base unit, I suspect your at the mercy of a power cut now, most phones with base units don't work without power. You will be forced to migrate, so it's better to do it at a time of your choosing instead of being forced to do it later. If your like my parents, they got a battery backed up phone (which I guess uses a SIM) for emergencies in the event of a power cut.

1. Will my Panasonic ‘digital phones’ ( the ones with base units ) work – their manual says they are for use with the UK analogue network.
2. If the main unit connected to the router does work, will the upstairs relay handset work ?

Anybody else feel the same ?

1) Depends on the phones, but a standard set of multiphones with a base station and radio handsets will still work. But you will have to move the base station next to the router/phone hub, so you might need to change them round if your base station is currently next to the phone socket in the wall.

2) Yes. Because the relay handset is communicating with the base station as it always has, it will see no difference.

3) Yes, I hate change, but it forced upon us if we wish to live in modern society.