Smart parking: keeper vs driver dilemma

agentfourty7

Hi! I received a PCN from Smart Parking for unpaid parking session at Macdonalds Road, Leicester. I am the keeper of the car, but I was not driving it. A sibling and their partner were. 

Of course the PCN states the alleged incident date is 25.03.2024, letter issue date is 12.04.2024 but I did not receive the letter until 25.04.2024 - that's almost a month since they parked and didn't pay. 

I am wondering if I should pass on the driver details to Smart Parking and let sibling appeal this? Or is there a single-shot method to both declare that I am the keeper not driver but also appeal the fact that they didn't exactly post this in time to be able to get the discounted fine?

I have read general guidance on here for keeper's MP and landowner letters - however, this problem is a two fold and wondered if anyone had a better way to approach this?

Thank you.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine. Nobody here would advice taking the mug's discount.

Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP.

Plan B is an appeal to Smart using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES, sent unaltered from the keeper save for a one liner that the NTK is not PoFA compliant and was given too late for the keeper to be held liable so they should cancel now to save themselves money, and the embarrassment of losing at PoPLA.

Plan C is an appeal to PoPLA if Smart are daft enough to pursue the charge.

Do not blab about the driver's identity under any circumstances.

All the information you need can be found in the aforementioned NEWBIES.

Gr1pr

Exactly as above 

The NTK PCN letter will have failed to comply with POFA 2012 ,for a start its from Smart, and the days between the incident date and the issue date fail the basic 14 days rule in POFA, nevermind the wording 

As keeper you have no liability due to the POFA failures, so stay as keeper and use it to your advantage 

If it were necessary for you, you can name the driver at any point up until any future court claim, but as keeper just stands your ground and you will win at the first or second appeal stage, job done 

Coupon-mad

It would be a TERRIBLE MISTAKE to throw away the keeper's 100% guaranteed win.

agentfourty7

Fruitcake said:

It is not a fine. Nobody here would advice taking the mug's discount.

Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP.

Plan B is an appeal to Smart using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES, sent unaltered from the keeper save for a one liner that the NTK is not PoFA compliant and was given too late for the keeper to be held liable so they should cancel now to save themselves money, and the embarrassment of losing at PoPLA.

Plan C is an appeal to PoPLA if Smart are daft enough to pursue the charge.

Do not blab about the driver's identity under any circumstances.

All the information you need can be found in the aforementioned NEWBIES.

Thank you for this. However, two things that concern me here.

The PCN doesn't at all use the word 'keeper' anywhere and the flip side of the PCN refers to a court judgement from 2013 Parking Eye vs Beavis in attempt to deterring me to contest a PCN issued on private land - as the supreme court ruled it was enforceable. Is this legit or are they just trying to scare the keeper?

I read the newbies thread for PLAN A - however, no one has been in a situation like me where they've not paid the parking ticket at all, they were either overstaying or late to buy ticket. What sort of complaint should I be making here? Considering, I don't even know where to find the landowner details. Contacting retailer isn't my option as Macdonald Road, Leicester where I parked, has no major retailers - only small businesses. 

Hope I can still pull this on them, in time.

Coupon-mad

Don't do a complaint. No need.  Such a simple one to win. The keeper can't lose.

Just appeal as keeper and take the easy win.

agentfourty7

Coupon-mad said:

Don't do a complaint. No need.  Such a simple one to win. The keeper can't lose.

Just appeal as keeper and take the easy win.

Thanks, so I just appeal on their online portal and say that I am the keeper and got your letter later than 14 days therefore cannot be held liable to pay this PCN?

Gr1pr

Almost, use the template appeal, or one of the bespoke appeals based on non compliance with POFA so no keeper liability, as seen in other threads with similar issues, especially Smart parking 

The bespoke ones say exactly why a keeper has no liability 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79751762#Comment_79751762

agentfourty7

Gr1pr said:

Almost, use the template appeal, or one of the bespoke appeals based on non compliance with POFA so no keeper liability, as seen in other threads with similar issues, especially Smart parking 

The bespoke ones say exactly why a keeper has no liability 

Thank you, currently adapting the one from 
''Duncan Nimock's case'' as found in the newbies thread. It's a 7 odd pages long appeal covering POPLA vs ParkingEye case. It does quote NTK compliance under POFA due to dates and wordings used etc. I'd only include things relevant to me and hope they don't bark back.

Gr1pr

Dont use a long one for appealing to Smart parking, use the bespoke short ones, long ones are for Popla, not Smart 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79751762#Comment_79751762

agentfourty7

Gr1pr said:

Dont use a long one for appealing to Smart parking, use the bespoke short ones, long ones are for Popla, not Smart 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79751762#Comment_79751762

Thank you - employed a little AI minion to improvise that, so we aren't all sending the same para to them - let's hope they haven't got AI-detectors lol

"Dear team,

I am writing to formally appeal the Parking Charge Notice (XX) received 29/04/2024 at XXX XXX, addressed to me, as the registered keeper of the vehicle (XXXXXXXX).

It is imperative to note that any attempt to circumvent the lack of compliance with the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) by requesting driver details will not be entertained. As there is no keeper liability established, any attempt to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper would result in an automatic victory at the Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA).

Furthermore, it is crucial to highlight that the alleged notice was issued on an early date but was not received until 29/04/2024, beyond 14-days from alleged parking charge. This practice should be duly noted, as it highlights a potential attempt to extract a fine from the keeper (myself) in a situation where the driver's identity remains unestablished.

I would like to emphasize that I possess evidence confirming that I was not the driver at the time in question. Any further attempt to pursue this matter without due consideration of the facts presented may result in escalated actions.

In light of the above, I request a thorough review of this appeal and urge you to either cancel the notice or provide a POPLA code for independent assessment, where it is expected that the notice will be retracted promptly.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

X XXXXXXXX

Registered Keeper, XXXXXX"