Argos, click and collect. Distance sale or not?

jambomakaveli

I won’t get into all the details at the moment, and will try to keep it short and precise. 

If an iPhone was purchased online on the argos website, paid for in full at that time and then just collected from the store the following day, would that be classed as a distance sale?

Should I be provided a refund if it was within 14 days of asking?

store manager said no.
customer care team said no as it’s been opened, and also stated that electrical items were exempt from distance selling regulations. 

Upon going back to store manager I was told, it’s not a distance sale because you could have asked the staff member upon collection to open it and let you inspect it before you took it away. 

I’m just looking for someone absolutely in the know if this situation would fall under distance selling?

from my reading, I couldn’t inspect it before purchase as it was purchased online? But Argos are saying otherwise. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

We had this discussion before on here and unfortunately the answer was inconclusive.

A "distance contract” means a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded

We were unsure what the word "concluded" actually means and whether the retailer having terms stating acceptance occurs upon collection has any effect on the type of contract.

The terms on Argos are confusing

2.3 Acceptance of your order and the completion of the contract between you and us will take place on despatch to you of the products ordered unless your order is placed in breach of these terms and conditions and/or we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have cancelled it (please refer to Returns and refunds). For FastTrack and Tu clothing orders, completion of the contract between you and us will take place when the products ordered have been collected from the store.

as they don't appear to mention Click and Collect that isn't FastTrack (unless I'm misunderstanding and all C&C are FastTrack)

Electrical items aren't exempt from the right to cancel, that's for certain. 

You could ask Citizens Advice and see what their opinion is. 

p00hsticks

jambomakaveli said:

Upon going back to store manager I was told, it’s not a distance sale because you could have asked the staff member upon collection to open it and let you inspect it before you took it away. 

I can't comment on the 'distance sale or not' bit of the post, but for future reference when buying from Argos or similar I always open and inspect the product as soon as I'm given it by the staff if it's something small and expensive in a box.

 We see too many posts on this board from people getting completely the wrong item and struggling to prove at what point in the distribution process the substitution happened....

Kim_13

Yes it's a distance sale, as the contract is concluded when the money changes hands, which was when you were not at their premises. The issue is Argos staff are not trained to know this / if they are aware, are deliberately told to tell the customer that the purchase doesn't qualify as a distance sale, as Argos would be taking a phone back that they couldn't sell at the same price again. 

Similar scenario here, they did eventually get a refund if I remember rightly:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6505350/i-need-help-getting-a-refund-from-argos-with-pc/p1 

pinkshoes

Kim_13 said:

Yes it's a distance sale, as the contract is concluded when the money changes hands, which was when you were not at their premises. The issue is Argos staff are not trained to know this / if they are aware, are deliberately told to tell the customer that the purchase doesn't qualify as a distance sale, as Argos would be taking a phone back that they couldn't sell at the same price again. 

Similar scenario here, they did eventually get a refund if I remember rightly:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6505350/i-need-help-getting-a-refund-from-argos-with-pc/p1 

The OP had the opportunity to examine it in the store when collecting which would form the bit under the distance sale. If they didn't like what they saw, then they could return it for a refund. e.g. they could handle it the same way they would in any other store and examine it, but not turn it on.

By taking it home, that would be acceptance of the goods.

@jambomakaveli I take it you literally took it out the box at home then put it back in, and didn't turn the phone on or anything? What's wrong with it? (other than it being made my Apple which are ludicrously expensive for what it actually does and you're paying for a brand name)

jambomakaveli

Head office have gotten back to me today, stating that it isn’t a distance sale, as I could have requested they open it for me to inspect and handle when I collected and then refused it and had a refund. 

So by their words, I could right now order 5 different iPhones, 4 Samsungs, a ps5 and an Xbox…. 

Then go into store to collect, ask for all 11 items to have the seals broken, be opened, handled, and then refuse the lot, have a refund and leave them with 11 items that are effectively second hand?

seems ludicrous, but it’s a bit David vs Goliath at the moment.

it seems there’s an issue with the legislation where it isn’t clear around this. 

I paid, before I had a chance to inspect. 

Legislation mentions contract formed, but Argos’s terms state it’s formed upon collection for online orders. 

As far as I know, consumer law would trump Argos’s law, but then the issue is, the consumer law leaves the contract formed part a bit up in the air, well in this case anyway. 

Don’t really know where to go with it now. 

eskbanker

jambomakaveli said:

Don’t really know where to go with it now. 

Just to be clear, are you hoping that it'll be classified as a distance sale specifically because you want to cancel the contract (for a change of mind), as opposed to the item being faulty (which would open up other potential remedies)?

jambomakaveli

eskbanker said:

jambomakaveli said:

Don’t really know where to go with it now. 

Just to be clear, are you hoping that it'll be classified as a distance sale specifically because you want to cancel the contract (for a change of mind), as opposed to the item being faulty (which would open up other potential remedies)?

I took the phone back to the store the very next day, it genuinely was switching itself off and on, and I asked for a refund as I thought it to be faulty. They flat out refused and said I’d have to drive 40 miles to an Apple Store for a genius report, or I could have it sent away for them to diagnose a fault, as they couldn’t see a fault from testing it in store. 

There was no way I was going to agree to either of those, so I then pursued a refund under the distance selling regulations, which as of today has been formally denied by email from the customer care team, who say it’s not a distance sale. 

eskbanker

jambomakaveli said:

eskbanker said:

jambomakaveli said:

Don’t really know where to go with it now. 

Just to be clear, are you hoping that it'll be classified as a distance sale specifically because you want to cancel the contract (for a change of mind), as opposed to the item being faulty (which would open up other potential remedies)?

I took the phone back to the store the very next day, it genuinely was switching itself off and on, and I asked for a refund as I thought it to be faulty. They flat out refused and said I’d have to drive 40 miles to an Apple Store for a genius report, or I could have it sent away for them to diagnose a fault, as they couldn’t see a fault from testing it in store. 

There was no way I was going to agree to either of those, so I then pursued a refund under the distance selling regulations, which as of today has been formally denied by email from the customer care team, who say it’s not a distance sale. 

Given their refusal to accept this as a distance sale, it may be more pragmatic to pursue the matter on the basis of it being faulty?  Apart from anything else, if you'd powered it up and presumably charged the battery, even if you didn't do anything else at all with it in terms of software, accounts, etc, this is likely to fall foul of the test about "if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop", thereby permitting the retailer to make a deduction from any refund.

jambomakaveli

eskbanker said:

jambomakaveli said:

eskbanker said:

jambomakaveli said:

Don’t really know where to go with it now. 

Just to be clear, are you hoping that it'll be classified as a distance sale specifically because you want to cancel the contract (for a change of mind), as opposed to the item being faulty (which would open up other potential remedies)?

I took the phone back to the store the very next day, it genuinely was switching itself off and on, and I asked for a refund as I thought it to be faulty. They flat out refused and said I’d have to drive 40 miles to an Apple Store for a genius report, or I could have it sent away for them to diagnose a fault, as they couldn’t see a fault from testing it in store. 

There was no way I was going to agree to either of those, so I then pursued a refund under the distance selling regulations, which as of today has been formally denied by email from the customer care team, who say it’s not a distance sale. 

Given their refusal to accept this as a distance sale, it may be more pragmatic to pursue the matter on the basis of it being faulty?  Apart from anything else, if you'd powered it up and presumably charged the battery, even if you didn't do anything else at all with it in terms of software, accounts, etc, this is likely to fall foul of the test about "if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop", thereby permitting the retailer to make a deduction from any refund.

I appreciate that, but driving 40 miles to an Apple Store, or having it sent away for up to a month isn’t great. 

Alderbank

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

The terms on Argos are confusing...as they don't appear to mention Click and Collect...

I agree they are confusing but they do mention Click & Collect.

You quote term 2.3 in their Terms and Conditions. However, term 4.5, a little further down the same page, says

4.5 Title to any products you order on this website shall pass to you on delivery of the products provided that you have placed your order in accordance with these terms and conditions, we have processed your order, and received payment in full for the products. For click and collect orders, the title to products shall pass to you once the goods, ordered in accordance with these terms and conditions, have been handed over to you in store.

Also interesting is their web page 'What are my Consumer Contract Regulation Rights?'
https://help.argos.co.uk/help/technical/what-are-my-consumer-contract-regulation-rights/72678

This page seems to cautiously conflate the CCR rights to cancel with Argos's own returns policy.  I think it is confusing.