Saba/ ZZPS / debt - claim.com small claims court action quoting bylaws ?

andrewgarner

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has actually had a small claims against them from the above, I've always done extensive reading and feel like i understand the subject. 

I am just very surprised that the solicitors involved have actually issued a small claim which is now progressing to court for a hearing (the mediation failed).

All of there own paperwork issued mentions bylaws and the "penalty charge" they are pursuing was at a railway station.

Many of the comments on this site and other advised sites say they will never pursue a claim but they seem intent on going to small claims court. 

Even Saba's own website outline that they operate the railway carparks to bylaws.

The offences we're in 2021!   any ideas on what they're thinking other than trying to scare us into paying ? 

How do they imagine they can enforce? 

Other than to the county court papers I haven't ever interacted with ZZPS, QDR , debt claims etc etc 

let me know you're thoughts if you've seen this "process" / scam before? 
 

Castle

Can you please post up a copy of the POC here, (redacted as necessary).

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Coupon-mad

We had a thread about this same sort of court claim a few months ago and @kryten3000 offered to help them, but I can't find that thread now.  I wonder if it was removed.

Why on earth did you agree to Mediation?

What EXACTLY did your defence say please?

When is your WS & evidence deadline before the hearing? Which court?

Show us the Particulars of claim, too.

And both sides of the penalty notice (redacted of personal data) if you have it.

andrewgarner

Hi all thanks for the very quick response below is the POC , nothing else was sent

andrewgarner

For more information, this was in December, I replied with a very generic defense outlining they would need to prove a contract was breached. I don't believe a parking ticket was ever issued, it was from an Camera on exit from the station car park. 

I haven't had anything official regarding what actual contravention they are refering to but I'm assuming it's related to letter's from debt claims about the train station in 2021

andrewgarner

I asked for the mediation to see if they would actually interact. I wasn't expecting much. I'm making lots of assumptions but ..I was thinking they we're hoping for me to breach the time limits to respond etc and get ruled against in absence (apologies if the language is inaccurate) because they can't possibly think this legal? 
I'm far from qualified, but isn't it well know that legal cost are in almost all cases not possible to be claimed? 

andrewgarner

We've just had the letter saying it's going to Northampton court (last week), and we've had no information from the judge regarding dates etc. assuming that will be instructed.

I'll try to dig out the exact wording of defense.

I think I outlined 8 or 9 defenses

. Around appropriate land. 
Right to issue
Driver or keeper 
Evidence of ticket 
No clear signage 

It was incredibly generic because the POC we're so ridiculously generic.

KeithP

andrewgarner said:

We've just had the letter saying it's going to Northampton court (last week)...

What exactly does that mean?
What is 'the letter'? What is the title of 'the letter'? What exactly does it say?

You showed us earlier the Particulars of Claim - a photo from a Claim Form.
What is the Issue Date on that Claim Form?

Sorry, but your posts are not making a lot of sense.

You appear to have filed a Defence. Can you please show us exactly what you filed?

Did you choose Northampton County Court when completing the Directions Questionnaire?

Coupon-mad

andrewgarner said:

Hi all thanks for the very quick response below is the POC , nothing else was sent

Is that a QDR claim?

Surely they followed that claim form with full Particulars?  Separately, a week or two later?  

Have a forum search for the words QDR Euro Car Parks Claim and click in one of the results from recent months.  Have a look at the full POC that everyone received from QDR in those ECP cases.  Did you get that?

If not:

There aren't even any dates and locations there, nor vehicle VRM(s) nor whether you are being pursued as driver, keeper or owner and in what legal basis? Nor is there any breakdown of the supposed quantum (which for 5 penalties can't possibly be £910 because that would be £182 each!). never mind the fact that any 2021 "penalty notices" are long since statute barred and the small claims track is the wrong place because there are not contract law charges...

... and any penalties were not "owed" to the Claimant, because penalties go to the public purse via Magistrates' Court!

OMG I wonder how many of these claims they've got away with, as yours won't have been the only claim.

I bet they have achieved CCJs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have even sent HCEOs to people's homes, despite the above facts and the small matter of having no 'reasonable cause' to process the DVLA-harvested data for this completely different purpose... and surely it's in breach of the DPA 2018 to still be processing the data for another purpose, 3 years later, when the notices in question were PENALTIES (if owed in 2021 they were owed to the TOC, not to SABA).

Which makes me suggest:

1.  Report this as a formal complaint to the DVLA and don't take their template 'we take data security very seriously blah blah' fob-off for an answer;

2.  Report it to the DLUHC as well, using the email address they openly supplied to the public for the Call for Evidence in 2023, which was parking@levellingup.gov.uk and show them those POC and the penalty notices if you still have them.

3.  Report this misuse of data to the Information Commissioner, explaining the difference between a penalty notice and a parking charge notice.  You'll have to spell it out, Janet & John stylee (mentioning the DVLA KADOE rules and the fact that penalties can only be pursued by the TOC within 6 months and at Mags Court (not small claims) because I don't see the ICO grasping it very quickly.  Do it anyway;

4. And report ASKEWS LLP to the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) which regulates solicitors in England and Wales. Allege a "breach of the SRA Standards" by filing a whole batch of 'penalty notice' claims using exceedingly vague and incoherent Particulars, using what appears to be the wrong court and wrong track, wrong claimant & wrong quantum (and three years after any Penalty Notices were statute barred). If this claim is part of a batch (which the SRA should ask Askews to explain and identify) it is highly likely that some people have got CCJs (due to using small claims instead of Mags Court) even though you can't get a CCJ from a Penalty Notice.

andrewgarner

Hi all , again, thanks and I'm slightly taken back at the speed of reply. 

Yes I asked for Northampton court.

the letter from the court is below.

*Just noticed the date 21st Feb is on this....

The actual letter arrived last week on the 18th of April, we've kept the envelope as it's date stamped 17th April.*