Do I need TV Licence if no Aerial? New flat? Is itvX free?

Cornucopia

Alpha_5 said:

At its simplest, it works:
Are you watching what could reasonably be considered a TV programme (Regardless of how you receive it)?
Are you watching it as it is being broadcast/shown live to a wide audience (regardless of platform)?

If the answer to both is yes, then you need a TV licence. 

The difficulty is that people interpret that in different ways. Would a judge make a ruling based on any different considerations?

Those aren't the rules though.   

And it would be ridiculous if they were - the law ought to be precise.   

This is all very topical, and I think the BBC/TVL have been caught napping on just how quickly it has become so.   We have Talk TV returning to being a radio station with video (therefore doesn't need a Licence any more), we have the various Amazon and Netflix live events, and we have governmental things like the live coverage of the Post Office Inquiry.  

km1500

if it is being broadcast and you receive it then you need a TV licence to watch it 

if you watch it by other means EG internet at the same time as it is being broadcast you need a TV licence to watch it

if you are watching on iPlayer at any time you need a TV license to watch it

otherwise you don't need a TV licence

Cornucopia

Agree with the above except (minor quibble) you do not need a Licence to watch S4C on-demand on iPlayer.

Alpha_5

Cornucopia said:

Alpha_5 said:

At its simplest, it works:
Are you watching what could reasonably be considered a TV programme (Regardless of how you receive it)?
Are you watching it as it is being broadcast/shown live to a wide audience (regardless of platform)?

If the answer to both is yes, then you need a TV licence. 

The difficulty is that people interpret that in different ways. Would a judge make a ruling based on any different considerations?

Those aren't the rules though.   

And it would be ridiculous if they were - the law ought to be precise.   

This is all very topical, and I think the BBC/TVL have been caught napping on just how quickly it has become so.   We have Talk TV returning to being a radio station with video (therefore doesn't need a Licence any more), we have the various Amazon and Netflix live events, and we have governmental things like the live coverage of the Post Office Inquiry.  

How are they not the essence of the rules when it comes to live tv?

Cornucopia

Because they aren't the rules.   Someone in charge has made the rules, and (really) they should be telling us mere citizens who are required to abide by them what they are (clearly, concisely and accurately).   They have failed to do that, and even minor changes in available content types are showing the cracks in the system.

If your summary of the rules uses terms like "essence" and "considered" then it isn't correct.   If the interpretation of the rules doesn't provide that you can watch live streaming from radio stations, newspapers and the Post Office Inquiry without requiring a Licence then it isn't right, either.   If the fine detail requires me to take a view as to whether Tim Pool's studio is inherently less professional than the One Show studio, then it is daft.

brewerdave

Just musing - how many people are caught/prosecuted for license evasion if they DON'T have a dish/cable fed service or an aerial fed service ?
Can't see any practical way that somebody watching "live" TV via an app on a tablet can be detected unless TVL demanded information from every single ISP linking IP address with physical addresses

Cornucopia

brewerdave said:

Just musing - how many people are caught/prosecuted for license evasion if they DON'T have a dish/cable fed service or an aerial fed service ?
Can't see any practical way that somebody watching "live" TV via an app on a tablet can be detected unless TVL demanded information from every single ISP linking IP address with physical addresses

They don't request IP information from ISPs (at least not as a fishing expedition), and I doubt they would be given it if they asked.

They also don't particularly go around looking for aerials and dishes (they are not indicative of an offence).

What they mainly do is go to people's doors and ask them if (a) they have a Licence and (b) what they are viewing without a Licence.   It really is that simple, and all people have to do in response is shut the door.  

km1500

I agree with the above enforcement is pretty much knocking out the door and asking if you are watching TV

brewerdave

Cornucopia said:

brewerdave said:

Just musing - how many people are caught/prosecuted for license evasion if they DON'T have a dish/cable fed service or an aerial fed service ?
Can't see any practical way that somebody watching "live" TV via an app on a tablet can be detected unless TVL demanded information from every single ISP linking IP address with physical addresses

They don't request IP information from ISPs (at least not as a fishing expedition), and I doubt they would be given it if they asked.

They also don't particularly go around looking for aerials and dishes (they are not indicative of an offence).

What they mainly do is go to people's doors and ask them if (a) they have a Licence and (b) what they are viewing without a Licence.   It really is that simple, and all people have to do in response is shut the door.  

I realise that they would need a court order to obtain the info. linking IP address with physical addy - far too expensive to carry out on a large scale - but do the likes of Sky/Virgin share any subscriber information with TVL ? 

Cornucopia

brewerdave said:

Cornucopia said:

brewerdave said:

Just musing - how many people are caught/prosecuted for license evasion if they DON'T have a dish/cable fed service or an aerial fed service ?
Can't see any practical way that somebody watching "live" TV via an app on a tablet can be detected unless TVL demanded information from every single ISP linking IP address with physical addresses

They don't request IP information from ISPs (at least not as a fishing expedition), and I doubt they would be given it if they asked.

They also don't particularly go around looking for aerials and dishes (they are not indicative of an offence).

What they mainly do is go to people's doors and ask them if (a) they have a Licence and (b) what they are viewing without a Licence.   It really is that simple, and all people have to do in response is shut the door.  

I realise that they would need a court order to obtain the info. linking IP address with physical addy - far too expensive to carry out on a large scale - but do the likes of Sky/Virgin share any subscriber information with TVL ? 

Not as a fishing expedition, no.   They probably would respond to a demand for subscriber confirmation for a single address in connection with a live court case.   (A pay TV subscription is on the list of factors that make an evasion offence more serious). 

Interestingly, even when the Dealer Notification rules applied, Sky and Virgin still refused to notify TVL of the installation of TV receiving equipment, and TVL never challenged them on it.