Install gas or electric in flat

michno8

I have just purchased a flat and don't know, what is the best route to go down regarding heating. At the moment there are storage heaters( old ones) in the bedroom and lounge and a gas boiler to heat the water. The gas boiler needs replacing anyway. What would our best option be replace the boiler like for like and buy more efficient electric heaters for each room or have a full central heating system put in. We will be renting out for approx 10 years then using for ourselves after. Thankyou 

MP1995

Gas still makes sense until fitting new gas boilers is banned

GingerTim

Please don't replace the storage heaters with on-demand panel heaters - it will be  cheaper burning fivers to keep warm.

brig001

How old are the storage heaters? I think ours are from the 90s and not too bad. You could look for a modern Lot 20 storage heater for the lounge and a panel heater for the bedroom. Personally I would get rid of the gas and get an unvented cylinder with two immersion heaters for hot water - only one standing charge then

Brian

Scot_39

Last I read on Ofgem TDCV - it was estimated over 60% of domestic power use was for space heating.  Hot water likely the next biggest single use  and likely a fair chunk of the rest - HW tank and shower - maybe 50-60% of my summer use - and thats just for one.

So defintiely right to concentrate on HW and heating.

Full GCH would seem the obvious cheapest - if not greenest - choice currently - running cost wise - but not necessarily in terms of capital costs - few £k for new boiler and pipework / radiators on top etc.

Say 5k min over 10 years - £500 pa - which you'd probably want to recoup in rent anyway - that would buy over 3000 kWh of E7 night rate electric - cover many a small flats heating - and that ignores the £100+ saving by not paying the gas Standing charge.  And as a landlord you have to have gas safety certificates / servicing etc.

But then even three decent HHR NSH (Quantums range c£700-£1000 retail plus fitting) and a new HW tank / immersion - would be getting well into £1000s as well.

Does it need a full tank - or is their an electric shower - if so maybe a mini tank (under sink electric 10-20l might suffice to serve kitchen and bathroom basin needs)

But gas is unlikely to remain as cheap as it has been - green levies will I fear inevitably be needed to persuade more to abandon GCH on march to net zero.  (Current ASHP grant uptake slower than hoped - forecasts run into 10,000s behind budgetted uptake so far despite increase to £7500)

Their really is no such thing as a "more efficient electrical heater" in strict electrical power terms - the heating element in a NSH works the same way as one in a fancy heating panel.  1kWh of electric produces same 1kWh of heat energy.

The difference comes in the response time and controllability of when that heat is provided.

Older NSH tended to be better for constant all day heat - panels or plug ins for shorter periods - that might suit those out all day in some respects. 

Panel heaters can be seen as more effective / more controllable than older NSH.  But you pay day rate electric - or worse still if retain E7 - day peak rate electric to run.

NSH gain from time shifting cheap rate off peak electric - to day time heat. 

And modern lot 20 - more so top end HHR NSH do so far more effectively (losing a lot less heat through passive radiation / convection over night as charge for instance) and best ones come with programmable thermostats / timers / samrt controls etc for realeasing stored heat - and adaptive charging algorithms to ensure meet daily demand - without user fiddling - to match the best panel heaters.

A frequent poster here @QrizB - has an interesting set of price comparisons - for heating options - you might want to read (some of the background around it in other posts) - starting here - from link in his post signature

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

And for more general background - the energy savings trust

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/energy-at-home/heating-your-home/

You need to weigh up capital costs etc not just running costs (and not to be cruel - many landlords - private and even larger HA - have been known to focus on former to their tenants detriment ) - but also remember as a flat "owner" - many of the best electrical options - like ASHP may not be an option.

michno8

Thankyou for everyones input. I've been looking to price up all electric but can't seem to find ball park figures anywhere. Has anyone got all electric system and what system, there are so many different electric heaters to choose from. Thankyou 

EssexHebridean

michno8 said:

Thankyou for everyones input. I've been looking to price up all electric but can't seem to find ball park figures anywhere. Has anyone got all electric system and what system, there are so many different electric heaters to choose from. Thankyou 

The best form of electric heating for the flat is likely to be  storage heating - as someone else has already mentioned, Dimplex Quantum are a good make/model to look at. There are other modern High Heat Retention storage heaters out there too, but the Quantums seem from what I have seen to be about the most straightforward and reliable, especially if wired in to a dual supply. It’s less likely that you would get permission for an ASHP system, and in any event right now if you were installing radiators then it would probably make economic sense to simply go the GSH route anyway, as there is already gas to the property. 

A replacement gas boiler which would not only give heating (consider installing rads which would convert to use with an ASHP in the future) but would also supply hot water on demand to both taps and shower will make the property far more desirable to tenants I would think, and you would certainly be lowering your future tenants energy costs for the immediate future, anyway. 

wrf12345

Electric shower and on-demand electric hot water are not expensive options and suitable for rentals, depending on the layout you may be able to get away with a single air-to-air heatpump (options for internal only all-in-one wall mounted if you can't get split types due to apartment rules).

Scot_39

A 10 min on ave electric shower uses c1.5kWh or costs c37p at SR - more like 45-50p on an E7 style peak rate.

That 37p / 50p would buy 6kWh / 8 kWh of gas - enough to heat a whole small tank from cold to 60C if fitted one - but a combi with a thermostatic mixer shower more likely economic solution if going to fit GCH as part of retaining gas. 

Showering daily for 2 would be a non trivial share of year round bills - over 1000kWh per year.

Whilst gas for now literally a 1/4 price of SR electric (or 1/5th of some E7 peak daytime rates)  it's costs cannot be ignored. 

The OP plans to move to property within 10 yrs - it's going to be their bill in future.


Out of interest - how big are the drill holes for these air units - and how noisy are they internally/ externally  (the later likely also important in a flat - as some US air con unit models are pretty noisy when compressors operating.)

brig001

wrf12345 said:

depending on the layout you may be able to get away with a single air-to-air heatpump (options for internal only all-in-one wall mounted if you can't get split types due to apartment rules).

Can you give examples of air source heat pumps that are internal only please. I'm also in an apartment and can't have anything externally mounted

Brian

BarelySentientAI

brig001 said:

wrf12345 said:

depending on the layout you may be able to get away with a single air-to-air heatpump (options for internal only all-in-one wall mounted if you can't get split types due to apartment rules).

Can you give examples of air source heat pumps that are internal only please. I'm also in an apartment and can't have anything externally mounted

Brian

 
That sort of thing maybe?  Needs a pair of holes in the wall but there's no big box outside.