Joint UC account, does partner keep claim if I take pension?

Noopin

I’m utterly baffled by the explanation of ESA eligibility, it seems to be aimed at people who have recently had to cease working (and paying NI), rather than someone who has not been able to work and has needed assistance for some years.
I’ll have another go at figuring out how to do the credits-only solution through ESA; and hope that several years of LCWRA and PIP means that she won’t be put through the wringer again.
Thanks again, everyone.

huckster

I think with credits only, you just submit the New Style ESA claim and ESA will make contact to confirm credits only due to insufficient NI. And a claimant commitment will need to be agreed, before they apply NI credits. The commitment is about reporting changes, supplying fit notes.

Rubyroobs

Noopin said:

I’m utterly baffled by the explanation of ESA eligibility, it seems to be aimed at people who have recently had to cease working (and paying NI), rather than someone who has not been able to work and has needed assistance for some years.
I’ll have another go at figuring out how to do the credits-only solution through ESA; and hope that several years of LCWRA and PIP means that she won’t be put through the wringer again.
Thanks again, everyone.

Why did she not claim contributions based ESA when she originally had to leave work due to ill health?

Noopin

@Rubyroobs, I was self-employed for my final 10 years’ work and she helped, as she could, with some admin and paperwork.  After we went onto UC 9 years ago, it became a trial for her even to get to the job centre, never mind getting a job.  She’d previously been on Incapacity benefit and DLA.

They eventually realised that she had sufficient issues to class her as LCWRA, which was recognised as a component of our UC payment.

She then suffered a MH crisis in 2020, the drugs for which made things even harder for her; and we got by on a combination of my earnings, UC and PIP, until I took SP 2 years ago.

MissFlossy222

Noopin said:

Ah, I had an idea that claiming the pension would terminate my UC claim automatically.  There’s just the two of us, so our maximum UC payment was 725 (including the two other components).

My commitments at home meant that we often received that amount - indeed, there’s a disincentive to working beyond the minimum income floor each month and I’d frequently juggle the amount of work I did, and the spacing of the the invoices I submitted, to optimise the benefit.

Precisely @Spoonie_Turtle, I considered deferring for a year and was seduced by the UC payments, particularly as they’re not taxable.  Taking the pension and allowing that to use up most of the personal allowance seems the best way ahead.  It sounds as though we’ll still have the UC account and my pension will be treated as earned income.  

I really thought that my UC claim would end and my partner would continue with her own…but, if I read you right, I could in theory just reduce my income by £220pw and still receive full UC whilst taking the pension.

In other words - take pension and pay 20% tax on everything I earn OR take pension, reduce my hours to reach the MIF and receive UC as normal.
It feels as though I’ve missed something…

If you receive the Carers Element of UC you shouldn't have a Minimum Income Floor.

Noopin

@huckster, you must be right; 2021, for instance, had 2 months of £0 from UC and that accords with 7 weeks shortfall on NI.

As for the MIF, which I never entirely got my head around in the calculations, here is an extract from a typical statement. (@MissFlossy222 not exactly what you asked for)

What you're entitled to

Standard allowance. 

You get a standard amount each month. You said you're in a couple     £578.82

Carer

You said that A is caring for someone.    £185.86

Limited capability for work and work-related activity

You said your health affects you at work or prevents you from working      £390.06

Total entitlement before deductions.     £1,154.74

What we take off (deductions)

Take-home pay.   minus‑ £449.98

 Take-home pay is what's left after tax, National Insurance and any pension contributions have been deducted.

Partner

The amount we'll use to work out your Universal Credit is £0.00

Self

Earnings from self-employment.      £1,449.15.           Total earnings                                £1,449.15

Your expected earnings (Minimum Income Floor) is £1,410.89

The amount we'll use to work out your Universal Credit is £1,449.15

Important

The total take-home pay for partner and self this period is £1,449.15

The first £631.00 of your take-home pay does not affect your Universal Credit monthly amount. Every £1.00 you earn in take-home pay over this amount reduces your Universal Credit by 55 pence.

Total deductions - £449.98

Your total payment for this month is.    £704.76

 

My main concern is the not insubstantial cost of funding several years of my partner’s NI contributions out of the limited funds we’ll have available.  Bearing in mind that, if she were able, she’d be working and contributing.

I’ll have another go at ESA and maybe take some face to face advice.

born_again

How much pension do you get?

As from your details UC would be

£628 as a couple
£201.68 Carers allowance
£423.27 LCWRA
Total £1253.05

Noopin

Well, @born_again, not that much.  

I’ve been updating another thread that explains how I had a bunch of (UC-related) NI credits abruptly removed, 18 months into my pension, which has dropped the amount from full rate to £814; more importantly, the delay left me outside the extended contribution window.  Needless to say, I’m not well-disposed toward DWP at this point.

With her PIP, that would be a useful income, but I very quickly learned that UC expect everyone to take their pension when it’s available, or else…

NedS

huckster said:

UC and credits to NI record for state pension purposes is never up to date from what I understand. They have been working on fixing this problem for a very long time.  For there to be a NI credit due to UC, I believe that there must be a payment due for UC. I don't think a credit is applied if UC award is zero. But I stand to be corrected.

NI credits are only given during APs were there is an entitlement to UC. No UC entitlement, no NI credit.

Most UC claims should automatically be awarded NI credits, but in some cases this automation fails and manual intervention is required. For a long time DWP simply didn't put the resources in place to conduct this work, so a large backlog built up. Around April 2024, DWP cleared the backlog but I'm unsure if the underlying problems were fixed.

Noopin

We went down to the job centre and spoke to an adviser, who actually recognised “credits-only” as an option in ESA.  He suggested we make an online application and see what happens.

I did that today (on behalf of my missus) and, initially, ended up going in circles - it’s unlikely you’ll qualify based on… and so on.  There’s too much about fit notes and SSP and a presumption of recent NI credits.

Incidentally, it’s staggering how many people are effectively on zero-hours contracts now, and don’t get SSP.

Finally, I pressed on through and the application form actually presents different credits-only outcomes.  In other words, precisely what @huckster was driving at.

So, we’re a little more hopeful than previously; it’s a shame that nobody at DWP suggested this when the UC was ended.

Thanks, all.