Joint UC account, does partner keep claim if I take pension?

TheShape

Noopin said:

Ah, I had an idea that claiming the pension would terminate my UC claim automatically.  There’s just the two of us, so our maximum UC payment was 725 (including the two other components).

My commitments at home meant that we often received that amount - indeed, there’s a disincentive to working beyond the minimum income floor each month and I’d frequently juggle the amount of work I did, and the spacing of the the invoices I submitted, to optimise the benefit.

Precisely @Spoonie_Turtle, I considered deferring for a year and was seduced by the UC payments, particularly as they’re not taxable.  Taking the pension and allowing that to use up most of the personal allowance seems the best way ahead.  It sounds as though we’ll still have the UC account and my pension will be treated as earned income.  

I really thought that my UC claim would end and my partner would continue with her own…but, if I read you right, I could in theory just reduce my income by £220pw and still receive full UC whilst taking the pension.

In other words - take pension and pay 20% tax on everything I earn OR take pension, reduce my hours to reach the MIF and receive UC as normal.
It feels as though I’ve missed something…

As I've been reading this thread, I just thought I'd ask:

You've mentioned that you often receive the maximum payment of 725 but also mention the MIF.  If the MIF was being applied, what level was the MIF set at and by how much was it reducing your UC?

You also mention reducing your income by £220pw.  Is your income normally in excess of £220pw and by how much has this been reducing your UC each month?

Noopin

I’ve just realised that I hadn’t refreshed the page before this reply and that there’s a whole page I missed.


Well, this has all been a salutary slap on the wrist, and it’s been a stitch in the nick of time.

I applied for the pension (having topped up three years’ NI a few months ago, which had the effect of raising expenses and increasing the UC payment) and received the award notice today.

The application asked if I wanted it backdated, and I received the full amount yesterday.  Now, yesterday was the day after my UC payment, which came as usual; so, by the time this is all sorted out, I expect to have to repay the UC overpayment.

Since they’re both DWP, I presumed the information from the pension claim would trigger UC to a response.  The only way I could confirm the pension claim was as a note in my UC journal.

Meanwhile, I’ll continue to report my earnings, including pension, and see what happens next.

This only came about because I chose to forget that UC was a means-tested benefit, so of course they would always expect me to be taking the pension.

Thanks to all respondents.

Noopin

@TheShape - I made my peace with, ah…manipulating the system ie.timing of invoices to control monthly income, paying tax and NI in strategic amounts, and my thinking ended up as a question of how to ensure that we received the maximum UC.  

In practice, this meant ensuring that my income for each UC month was around £1600 (net of expenses, which include lots of mileage).  I was musing on the idea of earning, say, 700pm which, with the pension, would still take me to around that mark. 

What I had to get my head around was that although the pension is taxable, it’s not actually earnings.  You can’t lump it in with a bit of earned income and still expect UC on the same terms as before the pension.

Danien

I don't know a lot about UC, but I'm surprised you can have a net income of 1600 a month and still receive it.

Spoonie_Turtle

Danien said:

I don't know a lot about UC, but I'm surprised you can have a net income of 1600 a month and still receive it.

Depends on a person's circumstances and their maximum UC award.  Lots of people can have that income or higher and still qualify, due to children/rent/disability.  

Noopin

Rather belated update, sorry for that, couple of health issues.

The upshot was that I ended up having to repay three months UC, which was taken from my partner’s PIP over 18 months.  Even as I said yes to backdating, I still thought that DWP would recognise that I had an overlap with SP and UC.

I’ve been trying to resolve her NI payments - can you believe that a DWP call-handler was still advising, two days ago, that we could go back over 19 years to make up shortfalls?  I put him straight on that and he had to check with someone else.  He then “lost” all of her online NI figures, before asking if we knew her contribution history going back to 1982!  Where do they find these people?

That is now the start of yet another complaint.

Ultimately, and going back to my questions about what happens to UC when SP is taken - I can foresee that she will have to pay class 3 contributions for the next eight years (£820pa) out of my pension and her PIP, which is essentially all we’ll be getting.  I thought she’d be getting NI credits for our time on UC, at least.  And, with UC, there was an increment for her LCW&WRA and my carer’s role.  Those came in at £390 & £185 pcm respectively and I always saw those as somehow separate from the main benefit and more like PIP.

Spoonie_Turtle

I don't have brainpower to go back through the thread to see what was mentioned and the overall situation, but your partner can apply for NI credits on the grounds of limited capability for work via ESA (colloquially referred to as a 'credits only' claim). 

[Unfortunately if she'd started that before UC ended she would have kept her LCWRA status, but as you don't mention anything about it I infer it's too late now, she'll have to go through the application process and assessment again.]

Noopin

Thanks @Spoonie_Turtle, you were a great help earlier in this thread.
I always imagined that UC was designed to replace other benefits and that everything would come under that umbrella.
We’ll get straight on with looking at ESA, as suggested.

She’s just had her enhanced PIP renewed and was LCWRA for the final four years of UC, so I don’t foresee a problem there.  I notice that the eligibility criteria for ESA include paying enough NI, or credits, in the last 2 to 3 years.  

Her NI record has just magically been repopulated with the years that went missing, I’ll check to see if the shortfall figures tally with where they started.  If necessary, l’ll make up the final 2 years contributions, if that’ll help the eligibility.

I still can’t work out why she hasn’t been fully credited with NI while we received UC.  And they want £907 to make up 24/25, my first year on SP.

Anyway, we’ll have a go with ESA.

huckster

UC and credits to NI record for state pension purposes is never up to date from what I understand. They have been working on fixing this problem for a very long time.  For there to be a NI credit due to UC, I believe that there must be a payment due for UC. I don't think a credit is applied if UC award is zero. But I stand to be corrected.

Spoonie_Turtle

Noopin said:

…  I notice that the eligibility criteria for ESA include paying enough NI, or credits, in the last 2 to 3 years.  

Her NI record has just magically been repopulated with the years that went missing, I’ll check to see if the shortfall figures tally with where they started.  If necessary, l’ll make up the final 2 years contributions, if that’ll help the eligibility.

The reference to NI contributions is to be eligible for payments, but anyone (who meets the limited capability for work criteria) can claim NI credits via ESA without receiving payments.

She won't be eligible for payments because NI credits or contributions need to be class 1 or 2 (including a certain amount from employment) and UC only gives class 3.
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/employment-and-support-allowance-contribution-based