Old Barclays DB Pension

Minette999

SPD is fixed - definitely only payable from SPA happily.
The 3% CPI max is the Statutory revaluation order for excess pension over the GMP. The Barclays  scheme only has to pay the minimum guaranteed pension apparently .

GMP is not the same as a guaranteed minimum  pension.

None of what I have said is in any of Barclays's literature and none of it appears correct , Xylophone,  I know.  But I would probably stake my pension (!) that what I am saying is what snowwhite will get. You are right about the fixed rate revaluation of GMP. You are right about anti franking on the statutory excess but they frank the scheme excess. I am questioning their basis of franking and whether it is discriminatory (short service, gender). It blew my mind too. 

GMP equalisation is calculated separately and mine has not been calculated yet. 
You cannot get an NRD quote until 6 months before NRD. For a woman if you take early retirement- no extra GMP is added on when you reach GMP age, the whole lot can be franked as you forfeit anti franking protection as you only get the guaranteed minimum pension protection at NRD.

xylophone

For a woman if you take early retirement- no extra GMP is added on when you reach GMP age, 

A man  taking early retirement from Barclays 64  is affected - did you see my post here with links?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80728899/#Comment_80728899

Snowwhite will not be able to obtain an NRD quote now, but I do not see why she should not ask TW to explain in words of one 

syllable how her pension is revaluing in deferment and on what basis her pension will be calculated at  Scheme NRA?

See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-calculate-your-scheme-members-guaranteed-minimum-pension

With regard to  The Guaranteed Minimum Pension (as understood for periods of contracted out service between 6/4/78 and 

5/4/97) 

Guaranteed minimum pension, commonly known as GMP, is the minimum level of benefit that normally has to be provided for anyone contracted out of SERPS (additional State pension) under a contracted out salary related pension scheme between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997. The GMP is a promise to pay a certain amount of defined benefit pension once the member reaches a certain age.

Because GMP is a promise to pay a certain amount of defined benefit pension from age 60/65, if benefits that include GMP rights are paid early, the member's total pension must at least meet the revalued GMP benefit promise from age 60/65. For a defined benefit scheme this is unlikely to be a problem, but it could prevent early retirement under a buy-out contract.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367546/gmp-equalisation-workings-barclays-pension

xylophone

And with regard to statutory revaluation in deferment  of Snowwhite's excess pension, surely S52a  Orders apply?

All her excess was accrued pre 2009.

 (Occupational Pensions (Revaluation) Order (known as Section 52a orders). These orders currently increase in line with Consumer Prices Index (CPI) inflation subject to a cap of 5% p.a. on pension accrued before 6 April 2009 .

Minette999

xylophone said:

And with regard to statutory revaluation in deferment  of Snowwhite's excess pension, surely S52a  Orders apply?

All her excess was accrued pre 2009.

 (Occupational Pensions (Revaluation) Order (known as Section 52a orders). These orders currently increase in line with Consumer Prices Index (CPI) inflation subject to a cap of 5% p.a. on pension accrued before 6 April 2009 .

Mine was accrued pre 2009 as well. I will have a look at what order they use. Just heading away for a couple of days.
Re early retirement and men - I am glad you reminded me. Nothing in the Barclays  guide about franking and taking your pension early appears to be correct. The guide says increases on the pension in payment  until GMP date are franked. However if I had taken mine after the last increase, on that definition,  there should have been no franking.  However it was franked just like my NRD pension. Barclays just have said, it's covered in disclaimers, scheme rules apply!
My IDRP Stage 2 complaint is going to run into chapters. 

xylophone

My IDRP Stage 2 complaint is going to run into chapters. 

I hope that you will update the thread.

hats_2

Hello, I was interested to read the comments above as I wanted some advice re a small Barclays pension from 1988 to 1995. I have been reading about the anti franking and am confused about this.  If I take the pension early,  I have a small gmp figure which has been provided which is payable at 60, I assumed that the gmp would become payable within the pension and not as an extra, but am worried now that the pension may be reduced to this figure. Also I have been given a transfer figure and am wondering whether to transfer this DB pension to the teachers DB pension as there is a window of opportunity to do this at the moment because of the McLeod judgement or is it better not to move it at all.  Thank you. 

xylophone

Assuming that you are female, GMP age is 60 ( which is the same as Barclays 64 NRA).

With regard to taking the pension early, this might require care - see this post bearing in mind that DT is male so GMP age is 65).

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79753960/#Comment_79753960

Concerning taking the pension at age 60 read all the posts above yours.

In connection with transfer of Barclays DB to Teachers DB, you would need to get a calculation from TPS of the  TP benefits the transfer would buy.

At what age would you be able to take the combined pension without actuarial reduction if you transferred to TPS?

DT2001

hats_2 said:

Hello, I was interested to read the comments above as I wanted some advice re a small Barclays pension from 1988 to 1995. I have been reading about the anti franking and am confused about this.  If I take the pension early,  I have a small gmp figure which has been provided which is payable at 60, I assumed that the gmp would become payable within the pension and not as an extra, but am worried now that the pension may be reduced to this figure. Also I have been given a transfer figure and am wondering whether to transfer this DB pension to the teachers DB pension as there is a window of opportunity to do this at the moment because of the McLeod judgement or is it better not to move it at all.  Thank you. 

No idea re advisability of transferring.

 I took my pension (1978-95) at 51 with a ‘step-up’ to counter the situation at 65 (when my GMP becomes payable). I have clarified after IDPR that franking will occur on the whole of my non GMP element rather than just the increase since first drawing (which I thought). WTW are difficult to deal with as each time you go back to them a new person deals with the query and because GMP and franking rules are complex the information is not always consistent. As has been said above scheme rules apply even if the information you are initially given is incorrect as it is the trustees role to be fair to all.

I reckon the crossover from a purely gross income point of view for me was about 74 (that is I would have been better off waiting until I was 60 to take my pension). As it happened the pension fund was in deficit and Barclays were struggling post credit crisis so I thought it a good idea to get something. I ended up not paying tax on the pension as I had little work at the time (stay at home Dad) and the funds were invested. So the decision as when to take is not straight forward.

hats_2

xylophone said:

Assuming that you are female, GMP age is 60 ( which is the same as Barclays 64 NRA).

With regard to taking the pension early, this might require care - see this post bearing in mind that DT is male so GMP age is 65).

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79753960/#Comment_79753960

Concerning taking the pension at age 60 read all the posts above yours.

In connection with transfer of Barclays DB to Teachers DB, you would need to get a calculation from TPS of the  TP benefits the transfer would buy.

At what age would you be able to take the combined pension without actuarial reduction if you transferred to TPS?

Thank you, the TPS age is 60 but just worried that it is so complicated and may lose out by transferring. Thank you I will go back and read the previous posts and links. 

hats_2

DT2001 said:

hats_2 said:

Hello, I was interested to read the comments above as I wanted some advice re a small Barclays pension from 1988 to 1995. I have been reading about the anti franking and am confused about this.  If I take the pension early,  I have a small gmp figure which has been provided which is payable at 60, I assumed that the gmp would become payable within the pension and not as an extra, but am worried now that the pension may be reduced to this figure. Also I have been given a transfer figure and am wondering whether to transfer this DB pension to the teachers DB pension as there is a window of opportunity to do this at the moment because of the McLeod judgement or is it better not to move it at all.  Thank you. 

No idea re advisability of transferring.

 I took my pension (1978-95) at 51 with a ‘step-up’ to counter the situation at 65 (when my GMP becomes payable). I have clarified after IDPR that franking will occur on the whole of my non GMP element rather than just the increase since first drawing (which I thought). WTW are difficult to deal with as each time you go back to them a new person deals with the query and because GMP and franking rules are complex the information is not always consistent. As has been said above scheme rules apply even if the information you are initially given is incorrect as it is the trustees role to be fair to all.

I reckon the crossover from a purely gross income point of view for me was about 74 (that is I would have been better off waiting until I was 60 to take my pension). As it happened the pension fund was in deficit and Barclays were struggling post credit crisis so I thought it a good idea to get something. I ended up not paying tax on the pension as I had little work at the time (stay at home Dad) and the funds were invested. So the decision as when to take is not straight forward.

Thank you, I will go back and read through everything. Many thanks.