Old Barclays DB Pension

xylophone

You will not have a GMP if your service is post 5/4/97.

If you left the scheme in 2007, your situation is on p 29 of the Guide.

Your pension at Date Of Leaving  was (Years Of Pensionable Service x 1/60 x Final Pensionable Salary).

Revaluation (rather than growth) is as in the box on that page.

Snowwhite69

Ahh perfect! thats great. Thanks so much for your help Xylophone. 😊

Minette999

I would be very careful about how your Barclays' 1964 pension is calculated.  The guide 'What happens to your pension when you leave Barclays ' is entirely inaccurate. In my case (taking pension at NRD female aged 60) the whole of my revalued GMP was DEDUCTED from my excess figure. This figure is then compared against a statutory calculation which provides anti franking protection (ie the revalued GMP is not offset against the excess pension)  As a result I receive a pension based on statutory increases (1/80 of salary) and not scheme increases (1/60 salary).  None of this is mentioned in any of the literature. It's worse if  you retire before NRD, this anti franking protection will not apply and  any increases  in your GMP revaluation will be deducted from your scheme excess revaluation.  I am currently going through stage 2 IDRP.

xylophone

I would be very careful about how your Barclays' 1964 pension is calculated.  The guide 'What happens to your pension when you leave Barclays ' is entirely inaccurate. In my case (taking pension at NRD female aged 60) the whole of my revalued GMP was DEDUCTED from my excess figure. 

The Guide to which I refer above is the Guide to  Snowwhite's deferred Santander DB pension.

Her Barclays 64 is the subject of

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6520731/old-barclays-db-pension

She was a member of the scheme form 1987 to 1995.

Therefore she has no post 97 accrual ( so unaffected by Scheme Reference Test) and all her GMP revalues at Fixed Rate.

I drew her attention to your posts  in

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80721511/#Comment_80721511 

See also (Firedreamer's calculation) on the basis of revalued GMP @ 7% and excess under scheme rules.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80721630/#Comment_80721630 

As far as I can see, provided that she does not take the pension before age 60, she is protected by anti franking legislation?

https://expertpensions.co.uk/lets-be-frank-what-do-you-know-about-gmp-franking-by-douglas-watson/

Snowwhite69

Minette999 said:

I would be very careful about how your Barclays' 1964 pension is calculated.  The guide 'What happens to your pension when you leave Barclays ' is entirely inaccurate. In my case (taking pension at NRD female aged 60) the whole of my revalued GMP was DEDUCTED from my excess figure. This figure is then compared against a statutory calculation which provides anti franking protection (ie the revalued GMP is not offset against the excess pension)  As a result I receive a pension based on statutory increases (1/80 of salary) and not scheme increases (1/60 salary).  None of this is mentioned in any of the literature. It's worse if  you retire before NRD, this anti franking protection will not apply and  any increases  in your GMP revaluation will be deducted from your scheme excess revaluation.  I am currently going through stage 2 IDRP.

Thank you for your comment and interesting to hear your experience, it giving me more understanding of all of this, I hope you get what you have worked hard for and wish you luck. 

Snowwhite69

Thanks again xylophone, reading your response and the links provided is really helpful. 

Il shall definitely be waiting until 60 now I think. 😊

xylophone

Thanks again xylophone, reading your response and the links provided is really helpful. 

Il shall definitely be waiting until 60 now I think. 😊

Clearly you will need to check your situation with TW nearer your 60th.

Are you able to access the portal in respect of your deferred pension?

https://epa.towerswatson.com/accounts/barclays/

Minette999

If you do look at any communications available to deferred pensioners from TW, be careful. The Trustees have told me that they will improve the wording as they agree it is misleading whilst claiming that I haven't been misled! 

Anti-franking legislation only applies to Statutory revaluation.  The Trustees frank Scheme revaluation (I still haven't seen the Scheme rules though). Their letter to me:

'Although legislation and scheme rules do not permit the revaluation on the GMP to be offset from statutory revaluation on the excess pension up to NRA, they do allow the GMP revaluation to be offset against any scheme revaluation above the statutory level, as long as the overall pension is at least equal to the statutory minimum.' (This is for any pension with a GMP).

Which is the reason I am only getting statutory revaluation. 

Having no post 1997 accrual does not impact on this as the Reference scheme test is a different thing. 

There is a test for the minimum guaranteed pension which in essence (ignoring splitting out pre/post 88 etc) is:

Test 1 - GMP (unrevalued) + Excess revalued (scheme increases RPI max 5%)   = Test 1 result.
(ie the revalued gmp is part of the excess pension as it has been franked)
Test 2 GMP with revaluation (not franked)  + Excess revalued as per statutory orders (CPI Max 3% (but RPI max 5% for pensions earned after 97) = Test 2 result.

You get the larger figure. The statutory orders offer some protection but I have worked out that over a 25 year lifetime with 2.5% increases,  I will be about £30k down.

Hence my reason for stage 2 IDRP. The Ombudsman will say it is a loss of expectation but I am looking at whether there is 1 cohort of individuals who only get the statutory minimum pension as opposed to the promises made regarding scheme pension increases in deferment.

You should be able to get a deferred pension statement from Towers Watson EPA. If you need to register they can set you up. This will show your scheme increases since you left. You might be forgiven for thinking your GMP will be revalued and added to the figure shown, like I did!

Good luck. At least with the fixed revaluation your GMP will be good to start with. 

xylophone

https://www.barnett-waddingham.co.uk/comment-insight/blog/revaluation-for-early-leavers/



As a starting position, Snowwhite was a member of the scheme between 1987 and 1995. The SPD is fixed and is not made until

she reaches SPA in September 2036.

She is unaffected by the change from the GMP system to the Reference Scheme Test System (started 6/4/97).

Scheme Pension Age (and GMP age) is 60 which she will reach in 2030.

GMP built up before 6 April 1988 -£57

GMP built up after 5 April 1988 -£436

Scheme pension (over the MP) built up before 6 April 1997- £1250

Total Scheme pension-£1743

with a £218 state pension deduction 

As she left the Scheme pre 6/4/97, her GMP is revaluing at fixed rate, in her case 7%.

In terms of the excess,

Leavers on  or after 1 January 1991	Revaluation extended to cover the whole of the member's pension, in excess of the GMP.  Annual increase applicable was the increase in the Retail Price Index (RPI), capped at 5% (sometimes known as 5% Limited Price Indexation - LPI).
Pensions Act  2008	Post 6 April 2009 accrual	Allowed schemes to reduce the revaluation percentage from RPI capped at 5% a year (as above) to RPI capped at 2.5% for pensions accrued after 6 April 2009.
Pensions Act 2011	6 April 2011	Consumer Prices Index (CPI) replaced RPI as the basis for the minimum statutory revaluation.  Rules for the pension scheme will determine whether this change was applied to benefits.

She has no post 6/4/09 accrual.

In terms of the revaluation of the excess, I am not quite sure given the above, how test 2 

Excess revalued as per statutory orders (CPI Max 3% (but RPI max 5% for pensions earned after 97) = Test 2 result.

could apply in her case. Where does the max 3% come from?

A factor which may be relevant to her case Is GMP equalisation as she was a member of the scheme post 1990.

https://epa.towerswatson.com/accounts/rsa/public/rsa-group-pensions-rigps-gmp-equalisation-faqs/#:~:text=What is GMP equalisation?,the effect of unequal GMPs.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/provide-a-pension-for-your-scheme-member#gmp-anti-franking-requirements

I think it would be a good idea for her to gain access to the portal and ( I know it is an uphill struggle) to get clarification in writing from TW?

She could certainly request a copy of the scheme rules.

xylophone

Other threads that may be of interest ( Barclays pension taken before Scheme NRA)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6412759/barclays-1964-pension-payment-change-at-gmp-age-for-anyone-taking-pension-at-erd/p1

With links to threads on GMP equalisation.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80016320#Comment_80016320