HM Land Registry - Witness & Verification of ID - Forms AP1, AS1, ID1

HUMBUG

Finding the HM Land Registry forms very difficult to understand , having to navigate to different links on HMRC website to figure out how to complete various sections of the forms AP1, AS1, ID1.

These forms are for the transfer of my deceased father's property to my sister and it should be straightforward as no third party involvement , no leases , lenders , etc.  

I managed to complete them after 5 hours reading all the various 'How To Complete Form'  links so nearly there.  

One thing I couldn't understand is AP1 section 4  Fees Paid value. I found the 'Scale 2 fees'  in the url link below but this suggests that one can use a 'portal' to do this transfer rather than complete and post forms.

Using the portal seems significantly cheaper and wondering whether this is something that only conveyancers are allowed to use ? Does anyone know?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hm-land-registry-registration-services-fees#scale-2-fees

The other painful form to complete was originally the  ID2 form  where I was hoping my GP would help act as witness rather than have to pay a conveyancer.   But my GP refused because he didn't want to submit a copy of his passport, so it looks like I will have to pay a legal representative to do a few signatures while also witnessing myself and sister signing the forms.  The form to use when requiring a conveyancer to witness and verify proof of ID is ID1  (ie. Application form to prove your identity when lodging an application to HM Land Registry). 

Also the HMRC website says that form ID1 can be completed by the following legal representatives:

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The legal representative can be either of the below:

solicitor

licensed conveyancer

notary public

barrister

CILEX Conveyancing Practitioner

Chartered Legal Executive

CLC regulated Licensed Probate Practitioner

lawyer practising outside the UK (see Note 2 below) (place ‘X’ in the box that applies)

They must also have a current practising certificate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is from the list above , who will be the cheapest?  I've heard that Public Notaries charge £96 per document so there are 3  forms for them to complete (ie. require 5  signatures and their printed name and address). 

So we are talking about £300 for 5-10 mins work.

Seems incredibly excessive fees, so looking for the cheapest option.

Savvy_Sue

If you already have a 'relationship' with any of the above, that's where I'd start. If you don't, I might approach a conveyancer to ask them to check it all over and do the ID stuff at the same time. But I have never had to do this. 

HUMBUG

Savvy_Sue said:

If you already have a 'relationship' with any of the above, that's where I'd start. If you don't, I might approach a conveyancer to ask them to check it all over and do the ID stuff at the same time. But I have never had to do this. 

I'm not acquainted with any on the list.  I've sent emails to 3 solicitors and 2  have replied back saying they don't offer the service of acting as a witness to the signing of the forms and verification of proof of id.

A public notary has replied back with a quote of £100 per document.

Land_Registry

HUMBUG said:

Finding the HM Land Registry forms very difficult to understand , having to navigate to different links on HMRC website to figure out how to complete various sections of the forms AP1, AS1, ID1.

These forms are for the transfer of my deceased father's property to my sister and it should be straightforward as no third party involvement , no leases , lenders , etc.  

I managed to complete them after 5 hours reading all the various 'How To Complete Form'  links so nearly there.  

One thing I couldn't understand is AP1 section 4  Fees Paid value. I found the 'Scale 2 fees'  in the url link below but this suggests that one can use a 'portal' to do this transfer rather than complete and post forms.

Using the portal seems significantly cheaper and wondering whether this is something that only conveyancers are allowed to use ? Does anyone know?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hm-land-registry-registration-services-fees#scale-2-fees

The other painful form to complete was originally the  ID2 form  where I was hoping my GP would help act as witness rather than have to pay a conveyancer.   But my GP refused because he didn't want to submit a copy of his passport, so it looks like I will have to pay a legal representative to do a few signatures while also witnessing myself and sister signing the forms.  The form to use when requiring a conveyancer to witness and verify proof of ID is ID1  (ie. Application form to prove your identity when lodging an application to HM Land Registry). 

Also the HMRC website says that form ID1 can be completed by the following legal representatives:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The legal representative can be either of the below:

solicitor

licensed conveyancer

notary public

barrister

CILEX Conveyancing Practitioner

Chartered Legal Executive

CLC regulated Licensed Probate Practitioner

lawyer practising outside the UK (see Note 2 below) (place ‘X’ in the box that applies)

They must also have a current practising certificate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is from the list above , who will be the cheapest?  I've heard that Public Notaries charge £96 per document so there are 3  forms for them to complete (ie. require 5  signatures and their printed name and address). 

So we are talking about £300 for 5-10 mins work.

Seems incredibly excessive fees, so looking for the cheapest option.

AP1 panel 4 - so scale 2 on the full market value. Application is a postal only one. The portal service is for business e-services users only so as you infer business professionals such as conveyancers who use our services on a daily/regular basis 
ID1/conveyancer as described or ID3/others as listed to verify your identities. Assume you are the executor and your sister is the beneficiary. Whilst we would not know which is the cheapest conveyancers are the most commonly used and I would suggest calling a few to ask how much they would charge. Fees will vary but some can charge much less than the amounts you’ve referred to but you may need to ‘shop around’ so to speak. 

HUMBUG

Land_Registry said:

HUMBUG said:

Finding the HM Land Registry forms very difficult to understand , having to navigate to different links on HMRC website to figure out how to complete various sections of the forms AP1, AS1, ID1.

These forms are for the transfer of my deceased father's property to my sister and it should be straightforward as no third party involvement , no leases , lenders , etc.  

I managed to complete them after 5 hours reading all the various 'How To Complete Form'  links so nearly there.  

One thing I couldn't understand is AP1 section 4  Fees Paid value. I found the 'Scale 2 fees'  in the url link below but this suggests that one can use a 'portal' to do this transfer rather than complete and post forms.

Using the portal seems significantly cheaper and wondering whether this is something that only conveyancers are allowed to use ? Does anyone know?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hm-land-registry-registration-services-fees#scale-2-fees

The other painful form to complete was originally the  ID2 form  where I was hoping my GP would help act as witness rather than have to pay a conveyancer.   But my GP refused because he didn't want to submit a copy of his passport, so it looks like I will have to pay a legal representative to do a few signatures while also witnessing myself and sister signing the forms.  The form to use when requiring a conveyancer to witness and verify proof of ID is ID1  (ie. Application form to prove your identity when lodging an application to HM Land Registry). 

Also the HMRC website says that form ID1 can be completed by the following legal representatives:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The legal representative can be either of the below:

solicitor

licensed conveyancer

notary public

barrister

CILEX Conveyancing Practitioner

Chartered Legal Executive

CLC regulated Licensed Probate Practitioner

lawyer practising outside the UK (see Note 2 below) (place ‘X’ in the box that applies)

They must also have a current practising certificate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is from the list above , who will be the cheapest?  I've heard that Public Notaries charge £96 per document so there are 3  forms for them to complete (ie. require 5  signatures and their printed name and address). 

So we are talking about £300 for 5-10 mins work.

Seems incredibly excessive fees, so looking for the cheapest option.

AP1 panel 4 - so scale 2 on the full market value. Application is a postal only one. The portal service is for business e-services users only so as you infer business professionals such as conveyancers who use our services on a daily/regular basis 
ID1/conveyancer as described or ID3/others as listed to verify your identities. Assume you are the executor and your sister is the beneficiary. Whilst we would not know which is the cheapest conveyancers are the most commonly used and I would suggest calling a few to ask how much they would charge. Fees will vary but some can charge much less than the amounts you’ve referred to but you may need to ‘shop around’ so to speak. 

Many thanks for your post . 

I have sent emails for quotes to 3 solicitors and 3  notaries local to me (see further below)  but it seems that Solicitors are not interested at all , while the Notaries charge a minimum of £100 per form.  

So the task they have to do is:
1. Witness our 2 signatures  - 2 mins
2. Check our passports and write down 'Country Of Issue' and 'Passport Number'  - 5 mins
3. Sign the back of a recent passport photo of myself and sister to the individual ID1 forms , then staple it to the form -  2 minutes
4. Sign the forms - 2 mins.
5. I give them a cheque for £200 .

Seems ludicrous to me , and I think HM Land Registry need to revise their rules, especially for 'Assent'  because it's like a 'sledgehammer being used to crack a nut '  to prevent possible fraud.

Considering I have done all the below to get Death Certificates and 'Grant of Probate' , why should there be a further need to hire expensive conveyancers as an extra layer of proof of identification for HM Land Registry?

a.  Death Certificates - where I had to personally visit the death registration office in the 'London Borough Of  Brent' and provide them the original doctor's medical death certificate , my passport and proof of address to register my mother's death in March 2019 and my fathers death in Sept 2023.

b. Inheritance Tax forms relating to my mothers death- Including National Insurance Numbers and details of her estate including bank and building society account numbers , shareholder reference numbers, premium bond holder numbers. 

c.  Inheritance Tax forms relating to my fathers death - where I had to provide National Insurance Numbers , bank and building society account numbers, shareholder dealing reference numbers, premium bond holder numbers, a copy of my mothers death certificate and a copy of her WILL. 

d. Grant of Probate - Where I had to submit the original WILL of my parents .  They have the original WILL on file and will confirm who the executor is  (ie. myself)  and who will inherit the property (ie. my sister).

e. Land Registry Title Changes Previously Made:  I've already sent HM Land Registry my mother's death certificate and her 'Grant Of Probate' to have her name removed from the Property Title ( xxxxxxxxx). 

These are the replies I received from the solicitors and notaries:
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Solicitor 1

Our services would be to prepare the Land Registry documents and attend to registration. We do not offer services of acting as a witness and completing ID1s.

I would need to see a copy of the title to confirm our fees but based on what you told me, our fee would be in the region of £750 plus VAT and the land registry’s registration fee.

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Solicitor 2

We are not able to provide this service currently

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Solicitor 2  - didn't bother to reply back yet

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Notary 1

Whilst I can assist with the ID1 forms in my capacity as a notary public however this can also be signed before any solicitor as well. 

Should you need my services my fee would be £100 per form. 
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Notary 2

Thank you for your email.

I can certainly help you with the ID1`s and the fee for these is £100.00 plus VAT per form

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Notary 3

Thank you for your email. Yes, we can definitely assist. The fees to notarise two ID1 forms would be £240 (£120 per document).

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The ID3 form for those who do not have conveyancer acting for them have only a limited number of options (for me anyhow ) and that is using my GP or MP , both of which will not provide copies of their passports which is a mandatory part of the ID3 form completion process.

Land_Registry

The only thing I would perhaps recommend you consider is that you don’t need them to witness your signatures on the transfer deed. 

The service you are asking them to complete is the verification of your identities. 

In my experience the ‘cheaper’ option is through a local conveyancer. That’s based solely on enquiries from hundreds of people seeking guidance on similar matters. Not once has an enquirer mentioned using a notary public but many may do so of course and not mention that fact 

HUMBUG

Land_Registry said:

The only thing I would perhaps recommend you consider is that you don’t need them to witness your signatures on the transfer deed. 

The service you are asking them to complete is the verification of your identities. 

In my experience the ‘cheaper’ option is through a local conveyancer. That’s based solely on enquiries from hundreds of people seeking guidance on similar matters. Not once has an enquirer mentioned using a notary public but many may do so of course and not mention that fact 

Yes , all they need to do is complete the verification of the identities of myself the transferor and my sister the transferee.  The cost is £100 per form from the cheapest Notary because she does not charge VAT while the others do.  

I have tried to find a licensed conveyancer using the link below but there isn't one local to us .  As I said , many do not want to bother with just the ID1 forms because they'd rather be paid a larger amount to do the whole work themselves (ie . completion of all the Land Registry Forms ). 

CLC – The Specialist Property Law Regulator (clc-uk.org)

The Land Registry say that we might regard this process as a burden , and it definitely has become a very expensive one. As I've said in my previous post , I've provided enough proof of my id to HMRC , HMCTS , Death Registration already. 

From the hundreds of enquiries you've received , have any mentioned the costs they incurred from a local conveyancer?

far

You can get the ID verification done online by at least one firm for £59 and I have found a solicitor's firm in Leeds that do it for £30. It is unfortunate as the rules changed last October. Until then, no ID verification was needed for probate transfers.

HUMBUG

far said:

You can get the ID verification done online by at least one firm for £59 and I have found a solicitor's firm in Leeds that do it for £30. It is unfortunate as the rules changed last October. Until then, no ID verification was needed for probate transfers.

How does that work? 

Won't my sister and I have to be face-face with the verifier (ie. the legal representative) while he examine our passports?

Then he has to write the country of issue and passport numbers on the ID1  form , plus sign on the back of our passport photos and staple them to the form. He/she then has to tick a box to confirm he doesn't know us and sign the form.  In my opinion £30-59  seems an appropriate charge for their time but £200 is highway robbery.

Is this the company you are talking about?

ID1 form Verification for £59 | Online ID1 Solicitors (id5.co.uk)

Land_Registry

HUMBUG said:

From the hundreds of enquiries you've received , have any mentioned the costs they incurred from a local conveyancer?

Yes - several have mentioned a £25/£30 flat fee as far has also just mentioned. I assume they’ve shopped around to find that but none ever mention using a notary 

far

HUMBUG said:

How does that work? 

Won't my sister and I have to be face-face with the verifier (ie. the legal representative) while he examine our passports?

Then he has to write the country of issue and passport numbers on the ID1  form , plus sign on the back of our passport photos and staple them to the form. He/she then has to tick a box to confirm he doesn't know us and sign the form.  In my opinion £30-59  seems an appropriate charge for their time but £200 is highway robbery.

Is this the company you are talking about?

ID1 form Verification for £59 | Online ID1 Solicitors (id5.co.uk)

Yup that's one of them, there's also one based in Hull. They ask you to have your documents ready. Typically, that is a proof of address (bank statement, utility bill, DWP letter, council tax bill or similar) and proof of identity (photo driving licence, passport). They then do a Zoom call, ask you to hold the documents up and verify them. They then ask you to look into the camera and screenshot this and certify this. These would then be sent to you with a completed ID2 form I believe. Its certainly one way of doing it and has been allowed since the pandemic.