Kitchen Fitter/Joiner Problem. Update!

swingaloo

HillStreetBlues said:

born_again said:

Unless they are on benefits DWP would not be interested. Now HMRC is a different matter.

Agreed.

OP: Is you friend on any benefits? if so what ones? And what does the letter actually say?

I haven't seen the letter, he rang and told my hubby about it this afternoon and seemed very upset. I know he gets carers and she gets PIP. I dont know about means tested benefit but he has said he is no longer ging to work. She has retired on ill health grounds and he said they were going to live  off that and the £28,000 they had between them (which they were putting down as a deposit on a house) as they have decided to stay put now as she is mortgage free. 
He did let slip a couple of weeks ago that she gets some Universal Credit but I don't know any details. 
He has moved in with her to save the rent he was paying but how 'upfront' they have been about it I don't know. 

I'm concerned as the letter is from the DWP so as born-again says they would not be interested if he/they were not claiming benefits. He is a 'bury your head in the sand' type of person but I wouldn't want him to dig himself in any deeper if he has been stupid and dishonest working cash in hand while on benefits.

That's the reason I wanted to know how much the DWP can access regarding bank accounts because if he gets interviewed and isn't upfront then he could, rightly, be in big trouble. I would rather tell him to be upfront and take a solicitor if that's going to be necessary. 
He is very much in the 'Oh, they wont find out about such and such' camp while I tend to be the opposite but I have been fortunate enough to never need to claim benefits so I have no knowledge of how it all works if they have been reported. If this woman has just reported that he asked for cash on the job he did for her would that be enough for a full scale look into all his finances.

Just to note, I'm not looking for any excuses or a way out for him, I just want to stop him digging deeper by lying if he has been claiming.

sheramber

Taking cash for a job is not a problem as long as it is correctly accounted for in his accounts.

m DWP will only be interested if he claims any benefit. How long has he been claiming carer’s allowance? There is an income limit for being eligible to receive it. 

When he moved in with her it would have to be a. joint claim for UC.

With £28,000 capital they would not be eligible of UC so , if he is not willing to show both bank accounts ,have they not declared that capital?

Taking anybody with him  will not help if he does not tell them the whole truth about his income and savings. 

RefluentBeans

Hmmm I think regarding the police, he just needs to go in with his story straight. If he did accidentally ding her car, or something else, then own to that. Criminal cases have a far higher threshold than civil cases (civil it’s on the balance of probabilities; criminal it’s beyond a reasonable doubt). It’s more likely that this specific police force is having a push for certain crimes; and so actually interviewing to either see if the case has got legs or not. As long as he is honest, he should be fine (unless he did do damage, then speak to a lawyer and learn how to minimise his exposure. 

I would also think someone who is willing to, let’s diplomatically say ‘exaggerate’, on a police statement may also be willing to ‘exaggerate’ on an insurance claim and needs a police crime number for the claim. 

As for the DWP - without knowing more details it’s hard to say if what he’s doing is above board. I know when I was on UC for a few months they suggested leaving the claim open until the end of my probation period for my new job as it means if I fell below the threshold of earning the claim would become active, and it saves delays. I ended up not doing that; but I would imagine some people would do that epically if they’re not in regular employment. That is to say, it’s not impossible to be ‘on UC’ whilst claiming nothing. Like others have said nothing wrong with cash in hand jobs per se; as long as it’s declared to DWP (if claiming benefits) and HMRC. Even drug dealers pay tax - tax man always know! If DWP are investigating, it’s best to be honest. 

HillStreetBlues

swingaloo said:

HillStreetBlues said:

born_again said:

Unless they are on benefits DWP would not be interested. Now HMRC is a different matter.

Agreed.

OP: Is you friend on any benefits? if so what ones? And what does the letter actually say?

I haven't seen the letter, he rang and told my hubby about it this afternoon and seemed very upset. I know he gets carers and she gets PIP. I dont know about means tested benefit but he has said he is no longer ging to work. She has retired on ill health grounds and he said they were going to live  off that and the £28,000 they had between them (which they were putting down as a deposit on a house) as they have decided to stay put now as she is mortgage free. 
He did let slip a couple of weeks ago that she gets some Universal Credit but I don't know any details. 
He has moved in with her to save the rent he was paying but how 'upfront' they have been about it I don't know. 

I'm concerned as the letter is from the DWP so as born-again says they would not be interested if he/they were not claiming benefits. He is a 'bury your head in the sand' type of person but I wouldn't want him to dig himself in any deeper if he has been stupid and dishonest working cash in hand while on benefits.

That's the reason I wanted to know how much the DWP can access regarding bank accounts because if he gets interviewed and isn't upfront then he could, rightly, be in big trouble. I would rather tell him to be upfront and take a solicitor if that's going to be necessary. 
He is very much in the 'Oh, they wont find out about such and such' camp while I tend to be the opposite but I have been fortunate enough to never need to claim benefits so I have no knowledge of how it all works if they have been reported. If this woman has just reported that he asked for cash on the job he did for her would that be enough for a full scale look into all his finances.

Just to note, I'm not looking for any excuses or a way out for him, I just want to stop him digging deeper by lying if he has been claiming.

Claiming CA there is a limit of £151 earnings, over that  then loss of CA.
With UC it will be a joint claim and he would have to submit any earning while on UC, but as been pointed out as over £16k there is no UC payable (PIP is fine)
The DWP have to suspect fraud to get access to bank accounts, but I expect that bar will have been met if they do believe he was working for cash in hand.
It would be the overpayment of CA and UC they would look into, but they will discover the £28k during their investigations.

born_again

swingaloo said:

HillStreetBlues said:

born_again said:

Unless they are on benefits DWP would not be interested. Now HMRC is a different matter.

Agreed.

OP: Is you friend on any benefits? if so what ones? And what does the letter actually say?

I haven't seen the letter, he rang and told my hubby about it this afternoon and seemed very upset. I know he gets carers and she gets PIP. I dont know about means tested benefit but he has said he is no longer ging to work. She has retired on ill health grounds and he said they were going to live  off that and the £28,000 they had between them (which they were putting down as a deposit on a house) as they have decided to stay put now as she is mortgage free. 
He did let slip a couple of weeks ago that she gets some Universal Credit but I don't know any details. 
He has moved in with her to save the rent he was paying but how 'upfront' they have been about it I don't know. 

I'm concerned as the letter is from the DWP so as born-again says they would not be interested if he/they were not claiming benefits. He is a 'bury your head in the sand' type of person but I wouldn't want him to dig himself in any deeper if he has been stupid and dishonest working cash in hand while on benefits.

That's the reason I wanted to know how much the DWP can access regarding bank accounts because if he gets interviewed and isn't upfront then he could, rightly, be in big trouble. I would rather tell him to be upfront and take a solicitor if that's going to be necessary. 
He is very much in the 'Oh, they wont find out about such and such' camp while I tend to be the opposite but I have been fortunate enough to never need to claim benefits so I have no knowledge of how it all works if they have been reported. If this woman has just reported that he asked for cash on the job he did for her would that be enough for a full scale look into all his finances.

Just to note, I'm not looking for any excuses or a way out for him, I just want to stop him digging deeper by lying if he has been claiming.

So that has a max limit of £151 a week after deductions. While it can be averaged out over the year, it has to be requested.
Oh dear. He is now in a world of pain.
They can request the bank accounts, if he is not upfront, as this may well end up a benefit fraud case.

UC & £28K savings... Anymore than £16K savings & no UC... UC is also a joint claim for couples, as he has moved in.

The best advice you can give them is be totally up front. Trying to hide savings & income will only come back & bite them big time.

Any overpayments are expected to be paid back.

cannugec5

I agree with all the comments above. 

However is this not a case of extortion? She’s only dobbed him in because he refused the ransom ie free labour. 

I hope when it all comes out and he is held to account that the woman is also made to pay her bill - even if that gets paid directly to DWP or HMRC. 

It makes you wonder if she carefully picks tradesmen that she can blackmail. How does she even know about his private financial arrangements? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

cannugec5 said:

It makes you wonder if she carefully picks tradesmen that she can blackmail. How does she even know about his private financial arrangements? 

One of two things has happened here.

The trader has done a poor job and the customer is digging their heels in and making a larger than usual deal because they feel wronged.

The customer is unhinged or completely aware of what they are deliberately doing.

We'll never know which..... 

pinkshoes

swingaloo said:

Just an update on the thread.   Wondering if it would be wise to take a solicitor to the interviews?

He sent her a LBA  but then backed out of taking it any further (I know, I could throttle him). 

He decided to forgo the money as he didn't want the confrontation and he seems genuinely frightened of the woman.

So fast forward a few weeks and he has now got 2 letters, one from the Police and one from the DWP.

Apparently she has reported him to the police for damaging her car and appliances. She has no proof but the Police have told him they will want him to come in for an interview. 

The letter from the DWP says that he has been reported for asking for payment in cash when he did the job for the woman. I haven't seen the letter yet so don't know if it is an Interview under caution or just a general letter.

Im amazed but Im not going to get too involved as I helped with the LBA only for him to back out of taking it further. I told him that if he was sending the letter then it was important he follow it through and he said he was prepared to do so but then backed out. He said he didnt want to face her in court, he really does seem afraid of being near her.

Would the DWP write to someone simply because someone has reported them for asking for cash? I have no idea of his business accounts but if he has been doing cash in hand work then I do not condone it. 

Does the fact that he has got this letter (again I dont know if it is an Under Caution' letter) mean that the DWP will have delved deeper? He has told my hubby that he is worried he will probably have to take his bank statement in. But, he has more than one account and says he will not show the others. He seems to think that they will not know he has other accounts so wont need to show them. Do the DWP have the way to find out he has other accounts? 

Much as I could shoot him for getting into this mess I'm wondering if its worth telling him to take a solicitor with him to the interviews or is that me over reacting?

Since doing the work for her he has now stopped work altogether. He has moved out of his rented property and moved in with his girlfriend. Again I have no idea what benefits they claim other than I know he gets carers allowance for looking after her.

I wouldn't bother with this friend. If a person isn't willing to help themselves then there's no point trying to help them.

He needs to stop being flaky and start the court proceedings. By not doing this, he is just making himself look dodgy!

He had a tiler, electrician and plumber also on the job, so get statements from them about the quality of his work to prove it was good, and also about the harassment of this woman (e.g. sitting in the kitchen so they couldn't do their work). 

He just needs to talk to the police, make it clear that HE is the victim, and tell the police that the 3 other trades people will back up his story.

Regarding DWP, there is nothing wrong with cash payments as long as he is doing his accounting properly. If he has since moved in with GF after the job then nothing wrong with a bit of time to sort out what benefits they can and cannot claim. 

Either he did a sh*t job of her kitchen and this woman is right, or he needs to stand up and fight.

Jumblebumble

swingaloo said:

Just an update on the thread.   Wondering if it would be wise to take a solicitor to the interviews?

He sent her a LBA  but then backed out of taking it any further (I know, I could throttle him). 

He decided to forgo the money as he didn't want the confrontation and he seems genuinely frightened of the woman.

So fast forward a few weeks and he has now got 2 letters, one from the Police and one from the DWP.

Apparently she has reported him to the police for damaging her car and appliances. She has no proof but the Police have told him they will want him to come in for an interview. 

The letter from the DWP says that he has been reported for asking for payment in cash when he did the job for the woman. I haven't seen the letter yet so don't know if it is an Interview under caution or just a general letter.

Im amazed but Im not going to get too involved as I helped with the LBA only for him to back out of taking it further. I told him that if he was sending the letter then it was important he follow it through and he said he was prepared to do so but then backed out. He said he didnt want to face her in court, he really does seem afraid of being near her.

Would the DWP write to someone simply because someone has reported them for asking for cash? I have no idea of his business accounts but if he has been doing cash in hand work then I do not condone it. 

Does the fact that he has got this letter (again I dont know if it is an Under Caution' letter) mean that the DWP will have delved deeper? He has told my hubby that he is worried he will probably have to take his bank statement in. But, he has more than one account and says he will not show the others. He seems to think that they will not know he has other accounts so wont need to show them. Do the DWP have the way to find out he has other accounts? 

Much as I could shoot him for getting into this mess I'm wondering if its worth telling him to take a solicitor with him to the interviews or is that me over reacting?

Since doing the work for her he has now stopped work altogether. He has moved out of his rented property and moved in with his girlfriend. Again I have no idea what benefits they claim other than I know he gets carers allowance for looking after her.

If I was your friend I would attend the interview and flatly deny to the police that they did any damage to either the appliances or the car and say nothing else except that the Woman is mistaken.
As she is unlikely to be able to prove the allegations I suspect this will go nowhere
As Lunatic says the Police are not your friends mate
The DWP issue is unfortunatly a different kettle of fish.

swingaloo

Thanks all for the replies.

  Just to answer a few of the replies.

He may be a mate but he is not far from being a complete muppet at times.
I can be confident in that he did a good job for her, this is a man who will fiddle for ages to correct something he thinks is 2mm out! I have no doubt about his abilities as a tradesman and I do know the woman is a total madwoman. I heard her screaming down the phone at him and I have seen her text messages. I looked her up on Facebook and under her ;Reviews' there are several instances of tradesmen she is going to sue and a few shops that she has found fault with the service in.
He said her car was parked outside her garage which is several feet away from the house and he never had any need to go with 3 yard of it. 

He was going to take her to small claims court and I went through the process with him and helped him do the letter. I told him at the time that if he sent the letter he must follow through the small claims route and what it would cost him to do it. In response to getting the LBA she wrote to him with what he called a disgusting venomous letter which he has not shown me because he said it was 'All upsetting him and he didnt want the ongoing hassle so he was not following through with the claim'. I was annoyed but its not for me to tell him what he must do.

Now of course she has taken this action. 

As for the DWP, it would not really surprise me if he and his girlfriend may have made some kind of claim to which they are not entitled. My hubby says he is sure that his mate said they got some UC but its not our business. I just some into the picture when he comes round asking for help with different things. Earlier this year he lost a large sum of money because he put a large deposit down on something he had not researched properly.  I was going through the process of trying to get his money back when he announced that he had signed a piece of paper on pulling out of the sale which said he understood that he was losing his deposit!

Hubby and I have discussed it all and I am going to sit back and keep out of it. I did a bit of research and I have found out the 'if' they are investigating someone the DWP must write to them to tell them in advance of bringing them in for an interview under caution. This ties in with him telling my hubby that they had written to say they will want to speak to him but not giving a date.

My instinct is to do as another poster said and tell him it is important to be completely honest and upfront with the DWP but I think he is the type of person who will start moving/hiding the money he has and making things worse if I start to tell him what could happen so perhaps my best course of action is to  butt out. Normally if he has any problem he is round asking me what he should do but hubby thinks and I agree, that this could be so serious we are better not getting involved.

Im also quite disappointed  about what he may have done but dont want to lose a friend over it..