For what reasons do people buy woodland?

silverwhistle

Over 20 years ago I had a colleague who bought some woodland with a legacy. His rationale was purely due to his interest in wild life, particularly birds. I don't think tax advantages came in to it at all.

Oldtaxfart

RHemmings said:

theartfullodger said:

iirc no inheritance tax, possibly other tax fiddles

That's one I wasn't expecting! Of course, that may just show that I'm naive. 

You are not naive.  The IHT relief applies to commercial woodland.  That is to say timber grown in the nature of trade with full, thinning, felling and replanting.  If you look at the guides you can see this is the case.  Most of the plots like this are 10-20:acres, generally part of a larger woodland area which has been brought back to decent condition by companies like woodlands4sale.  In the South East in the past decade the prices charged have roughly doubled through these websites.  That sounds good until you remember you need to maintain the land which will probably outstrip what you can realise from it as income and, when you sell, there may be brokerage costs.

The main benefit to owning the land is the amenity value you can derive, you can “live” on the land for up to 28:days per annum.  You can sell or take timber for your own use, kindling, logs etc, make charcoal if you want an income.  As HMRC view this as not being commercial woodland, it’s questionable you could make a profit.  In any event commercial exploitation of woodland, planting to first cut of felled timber is exempt from income tax.  Capital gains tax is payable on the increase of the value in the land, i.e., the value of the standing timber is not included for cost or sale purposes.

The reason there is no income tax on commercial woodland/forestry land, was it was charged but by reference to the rateable value under what was called Schedule B.  However the expenses were claimable based on costs incurred.  If you bought commercial woodland at planting, you had 20 years before you would have anything worth selling apart from thinnings, but you could claim the expenses against your other income.  By making it non taxable it took away the relief on the losses.  Not a fiddle but making the rich (insert appropriate gender here) one for the even richer.

Sapindus

silverwhistle said:

Over 20 years ago I had a colleague who bought some woodland with a legacy. His rationale was purely due to his interest in wild life, particularly birds. I don't think tax advantages came in to it at all.

I have a colleague in a similar situation who bought a plot of woodland which has been divided up for private buyers.  Their motivation as a conservation professional is to restore it for wildlife and sustainable use including making charcoal, but is also into outdoor education and takes kids from the youth club there for foraging and den building etc.  I've built a den there and slept with my son when he was younger.  We got bit to death by squirrel fleas or something.

RHemmings

I idly had a look at a few bits of land today. Two of them reasonably near me are bordered by major roads. In one case the A6, and the other the A5. 

After a bit of research prompted by me wondering, it seems that National Highways can request you to do work on trees if there is a potential issue with the road, and if an owner doesn't engage with them, National Highways can go onto the land to do the work themselves (or presumably use contractors) and then bill the landowner. 

While the list of situations that might cause these actions to be needed seem to be small, this does appear to be one risk that someone owning a woodland situated next to a road might face. 

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-work/environment/biodiversity/trees-near-your-property/

(If anyone looks, you need to scroll down the page to find discussion of trees on private land.) 

While it's a bit hard for me to work out where the land is from the map on the auctioneer's website, it *appears* to me that the trees on both the left and right side of the road here are one of the properties being sold. Split into two bits by the road. 



EDIT2: This is another such property. It's the land on the right side of the image which is being sold, and the garages are said to now be demolished. That big tree, in particular, looks like it could end up costing someone. 



I'm surprised how many of the bits of land being auctioned are right up against fairly large roads. 

user1977

No different to having a tree in a garden in that respect - just more trees to worry about!

RHemmings

user1977 said:

No different to having a tree in a garden in that respect - just more trees to worry about!

Yes, and I've noted that for other circumstances as well. Just that I'm noting that a lot of these bits of property seem to already have large trees looking like some work could be needed to be done. I like trees and am still tempted to end up with a bit of land somewhere. But, I have to be careful to not take something on that could be very expensive. 

Here's another example bit of land for sale. Those trees look like they'll need quite a bit of trimming to stop them overhanging the footpath and possibly the road if left to grow. 

pjs493

I’ve recently heard of a farmer buying a parcel of woodland next to a major A road in the hope that some years down the line the govt decide to expend the road and he’ll end up with a windfall. Not all people do this for the right reasons. Apparently the sale was done clandestine without other local landowners (who wanted to preserve it so it could be enjoyed and not developed on) knowing that the land was even for sale until it was sold. The seller was looking for a premium and knew the farmer would pay with the future expectation rather than adjoining landowners who simply wanted to enjoy it as it was for generations to come. 

RHemmings

While looking into other things, I came across the concept of woodland burials. This is, as the name suggests, burial in a woodland. This appears to be another way that woodland can be used while, mostly, preserving its nature as woodland. 

I'm very confident that it won't be possible to buy random woodland and turn it into a burial site, but I've yet been unable to find out how that works. E.g. https://www.woodlands.co.uk/blog/practical-guides/green-burial-can-i-be-buried-in-my-woodland/  suggests that you can be buried in woodland if you have permission of the landowner. (This site also suggests that not all sites are suitable because there must be at least two metres of dirt, and that dirty shouldn't be sandy soil because it's not safe to dig deep enough.) 

I'm not saying that this is something I immediately want to do. But, it has gone into my brain as one vague possibility. 

EDIT: It seems that it's allowing to plant trees on agricultural land without planning permission. Though, an impact statement from the Forestry Commission may well be necessary. https://www.michelmores.com/agriculture-insight/trees-and-notices-to-quit-should-agricultural-tenants-be-worried/  The reason for the planting trees is that for natural burials, it's not uncommon for the grave to be marked by the planting of a tree. 

prowla

Like one or two others, I've always fancied owning a chunk of woodland for some reason.

GrannyKate

Daughter has just bought agricultural land next to her house mostly to protect her home and outlook from anyone else developing it (permission very unlikely).  This is very steep and has some rough woodland at bottom.  Adjoining land has already been bought by Woodland Trust.  Has been rented out at times for sheep.