Universal Credit from Couple to Single?

NedS

Hordak said:

NedS said:

Because you have not received your first payment yet, UC probably haven't received your earnings figure for the first month yet either. Once you reach the end of your first AP (assessment period), and UC see you have earnings above the couple AET threshold  (rising to £1189 in April), then your wife will no longer be expected to look for work, so do not worry. They will still have a commitments to accept that simply requires them to log in regularly to complete any tasks in their ToDo list and notify of any changes.

Addressing a couple of technical "what if" questions that arose earlier in the thread:

1. You cannot claim as a single person if your partner does not wish to claim. You either claim as a couple or not at all.

2. If your partner were to refuse to accept their commitments, the claim will close - there is no legal basis for the claim if the claimant fails to accept their commitments.

3. If your partner were to accept their commitments (to look for work), and then fail to do so, they would receive a sanction. The sanction amount would be half the couple standard allowance of UC (their share), but you would still receive your half of the couple allowance, and the full amounts for any children, housing etc. So accepting their commitments and then not attending appointments or looking for work would put you in a similar position to making a "single" claim, but in a way that is lawful and allowable. But this should not be necessary, as your household earnings should be over the AET - it just takes the first month for the system to sort itself out sometimes.

Hello,

Thank you for your input. This is a very informative post.

Is the answer to number 3 available on the gov.uk website?

I've understood, from what you've said, is when the AET for couples has been removed as per kaMelo's post above, and then my partner refused to accept any of the commitments in her To-do list, at any point, then our UC claim will close and we'll get no payments? Not even for me or my two children?

If she accepts the commitments, then fails to adhere to what is required of her, then the sanction will downgrade our claim from Couple to Single?

Your 3rd paragraph is correct - if either of you fail (or refuse) to accept your commitments, then the claim will close. Consider it like a legal contract - if you do not sign, there is no contract and therefore there is no claim or payments.

Once commitments (a contract) has been agreed and accepted, if your wife then fails to uphold her end of the contract (commitment to look for work), UC will impose a financial penalty, called a sanction. The amount of money that is sanctioned is her half of the couple rate. Your claim will still be a couple claim, but you will receive less money due to the sanction - closer to the amount you would have received if it were a single claim. It is NOT a single claim, but you may like to consider it as being like a single claim in monetary terms if that helps you rationalise it. Your wife would still need to meet their other commitments to log in regularly and report changes, as failure to undertake those actions could result in the claim being closed.

Hordak

NedS said:

Hordak said:

NedS said:

Because you have not received your first payment yet, UC probably haven't received your earnings figure for the first month yet either. Once you reach the end of your first AP (assessment period), and UC see you have earnings above the couple AET threshold  (rising to £1189 in April), then your wife will no longer be expected to look for work, so do not worry. They will still have a commitments to accept that simply requires them to log in regularly to complete any tasks in their ToDo list and notify of any changes.

Addressing a couple of technical "what if" questions that arose earlier in the thread:

1. You cannot claim as a single person if your partner does not wish to claim. You either claim as a couple or not at all.

2. If your partner were to refuse to accept their commitments, the claim will close - there is no legal basis for the claim if the claimant fails to accept their commitments.

3. If your partner were to accept their commitments (to look for work), and then fail to do so, they would receive a sanction. The sanction amount would be half the couple standard allowance of UC (their share), but you would still receive your half of the couple allowance, and the full amounts for any children, housing etc. So accepting their commitments and then not attending appointments or looking for work would put you in a similar position to making a "single" claim, but in a way that is lawful and allowable. But this should not be necessary, as your household earnings should be over the AET - it just takes the first month for the system to sort itself out sometimes.

Hello,

Thank you for your input. This is a very informative post.

Is the answer to number 3 available on the gov.uk website?

I've understood, from what you've said, is when the AET for couples has been removed as per kaMelo's post above, and then my partner refused to accept any of the commitments in her To-do list, at any point, then our UC claim will close and we'll get no payments? Not even for me or my two children?

If she accepts the commitments, then fails to adhere to what is required of her, then the sanction will downgrade our claim from Couple to Single?

Your 3rd paragraph is correct - if either of you fail (or refuse) to accept your commitments, then the claim will close. Consider it like a legal contract - if you do not sign, there is no contract and therefore there is no claim or payments.

Once commitments (a contract) has been agreed and accepted, if your wife then fails to uphold her end of the contract (commitment to look for work), UC will impose a financial penalty, called a sanction. The amount of money that is sanctioned is her half of the couple rate. Your claim will still be a couple claim, but you will receive less money due to the sanction - closer to the amount you would have received if it were a single claim. It is NOT a single claim, but you may like to consider it as being like a single claim in monetary terms if that helps you rationalise it. Your wife would still need to meet their other commitments to log in regularly and report changes, as failure to undertake those actions could result in the claim being closed.

Hi,

Thank you for clarifying.

Would UC or the Work Coach contact us by written correspondence (letter or e-mail) to enquire why she's not fulfilling her commitments?

Hordak

kaMelo said:

Hordak said:

kaMelo said:

The proposed changes to remove the couples AET were announced in the 2023 budget.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spring-budget-2023-labour-market-factsheet/spring-budget-2023-factsheet-labour-market-measures

Currently this has not been implemented and would require legislation to do so. However it's worth noting it was costed and budgeted for, starting financial year 2024/25.
Page 83 Line 17
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6419c87d8fa8f547c267efca/Web_accessible_Budget_2023.pdf

Given it was budgeted for it's a logical assumption that removing the couples AET will implemented at some point after April, but logical and political don't always align.

Hi,

So, it's all but confirmed, it's just a case of when they pull it.

As I said, logically yes it's a matter of when not if but politics always plays a part and the two don't always align.

I'd also draw attention to your other comment
Hordak said:

If she accepts the commitments, then fails to adhere to what is required of her, then the sanction will downgrade our claim from Couple to Single?

The 2023 autumn statement set out a back to work policy, part of which is to strengthen the sanction regime for those who choose not to engage with help to find work. The ultimate sanction is to close the entire claim.
In particular 3:21 - 3:27
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6568909c5936bb00133167cc/E02982473_Autumn_Statement_Nov_23_Accessible_Final.pdf
Again it's costed and budgeted for in financial year 2024-25, shown in chapter 5.


In short, if you're fit and healthy and ask for state help you are expected to help yourselves too by seeking work. If you choose not to work then you're going to have to fund that choice yourselves as the state will not.

Thank for pointing that out.

It doesn't quite differentiate between Single and Couple claims. 

Let's see, what happens in the next few months. 

peteuk

Hordak said:

Hi,

Thank you for clarifying.

Would UC or the Work Coach contact us by written correspondence (letter or e-mail) to enquire why she's not fulfilling her commitments?

All correspondence will be via your journal, if youve set it up for email notifications then you will receive an email advising you of the message and may show the contents.

elsien

Hordak said:

NedS said:

Hordak said:

NedS said:

Because you have not received your first payment yet, UC probably haven't received your earnings figure for the first month yet either. Once you reach the end of your first AP (assessment period), and UC see you have earnings above the couple AET threshold  (rising to £1189 in April), then your wife will no longer be expected to look for work, so do not worry. They will still have a commitments to accept that simply requires them to log in regularly to complete any tasks in their ToDo list and notify of any changes.

Addressing a couple of technical "what if" questions that arose earlier in the thread:

1. You cannot claim as a single person if your partner does not wish to claim. You either claim as a couple or not at all.

2. If your partner were to refuse to accept their commitments, the claim will close - there is no legal basis for the claim if the claimant fails to accept their commitments.

3. If your partner were to accept their commitments (to look for work), and then fail to do so, they would receive a sanction. The sanction amount would be half the couple standard allowance of UC (their share), but you would still receive your half of the couple allowance, and the full amounts for any children, housing etc. So accepting their commitments and then not attending appointments or looking for work would put you in a similar position to making a "single" claim, but in a way that is lawful and allowable. But this should not be necessary, as your household earnings should be over the AET - it just takes the first month for the system to sort itself out sometimes.

Hello,

Thank you for your input. This is a very informative post.

Is the answer to number 3 available on the gov.uk website?

I've understood, from what you've said, is when the AET for couples has been removed as per kaMelo's post above, and then my partner refused to accept any of the commitments in her To-do list, at any point, then our UC claim will close and we'll get no payments? Not even for me or my two children?

If she accepts the commitments, then fails to adhere to what is required of her, then the sanction will downgrade our claim from Couple to Single?

Your 3rd paragraph is correct - if either of you fail (or refuse) to accept your commitments, then the claim will close. Consider it like a legal contract - if you do not sign, there is no contract and therefore there is no claim or payments.

Once commitments (a contract) has been agreed and accepted, if your wife then fails to uphold her end of the contract (commitment to look for work), UC will impose a financial penalty, called a sanction. The amount of money that is sanctioned is her half of the couple rate. Your claim will still be a couple claim, but you will receive less money due to the sanction - closer to the amount you would have received if it were a single claim. It is NOT a single claim, but you may like to consider it as being like a single claim in monetary terms if that helps you rationalise it. Your wife would still need to meet their other commitments to log in regularly and report changes, as failure to undertake those actions could result in the claim being closed.

Hi,

Thank you for clarifying.

Would UC or the Work Coach contact us by written correspondence (letter or e-mail) to enquire why she's not fulfilling her commitments?

If you already know she does not wish to work and has no intention of meeting the commitments it does beg the question as to why she is agreeing to them in the first place. 

kkkklinky

My brother was in a similar situation and ended up closing the claim... unfortunately in his case his wife has never worked and has no intention of ever working so he had no choice really.

I agree with above post..if she has no intention of fulfilling the commitments why agree to them. Your partner can't just agree to a permanent sanction in exchange for not having to work..it doesn't work that way. She will just get repeatedly sanctioned until they permanently stop the claim.

Loz01

Unfortunately if you want universal credit you must adhere to their commitments, if you don't they will sanction or close the claim down. Is it a situation where your wife is from another country or has no recourse to public funds?