Bogus Valuation by the administrator

edrussell

Hi,

I have a problem with an administrator who I think might be dishonest. The administrator was appointed by Probate Registrar a while back. If anyone has advice can you post. Thanks.  

1) My dad passed intestate. He left his 5 kids his house, shares, cash etc. I estimate in total around £750,000 - £850,000. He lived on the south coast.

2) The probate registrar (PR) appointed a fairly big national firm of solicitors as the administrator of the estate in August 2022.

3) In April 2023 they started work!

4)They have not really outlined a clear strategic approach and seem to be stumbling along wasting time and running up big fees (currently double what they first estimated, now standing at £30,000).

5) The administrator recently sent me a valuation which obviously undervalued my dad’s house by about £100,000. I objected and they did two more, including a RICS valuation; all came in at the around the same price.  

6) I know my old dad’s house well and noticed that a neighbour’s house (almost identical) sold for the figure I would expect. I have been in that house loads of times with my dad, the layout is the same and the décor is also similar

7) The administrator says, after three valuations, he does not want to look at the valuation again and I should wait for the sale blah blah

8) Looking more closely at the valuations I notice that they are populated with non-existent properties which at any rate are nothing like my dad’s and are conveniently priced to match the low price in all three valuations of my dad’s house. This looks very dodgy, like criminal conduct. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing before? 

It is so odd I can scarcely believe it but yeah, they are a load of made of properties in clear colour.

9) I think that the administrator is trying to con me with a load of fake properties. I am not sure what to do about it. I have written a detailed report up, but I am a bit nervous about directly confronting the administrator again. I am of the opinion that I should go over his head report it to the main partner and then the Solicitor professional body if no joy. I don’t want to get bogged down with their internal complaints as it will probably be controlled by the administrator anyway.

I could take it to the cops, but I really want the estate to be sorted out first. Would they be interested anyway? Who knows these days.

There are a lot of other weird things which make me feel like the `Mark’.

Thanks for reading. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Ed

Tucosalamanca

How well do you understand the probate process?
In some situations it's very beneficial to have a low property valuation.

Why would the administrator want to con you?
How do you think they are doing this and how do you think they stand to gain?

If you're objecting, getting involved in conversations, requesting additional valuations and so on this all costs money.
A RICS surveyor and solicitors are not cheap and you will quickly run up a bill.

Google is your friend, perhaps some reading over the weekend would be helpful?

Hoenir

If the house is valued higher for probate then the IHT payable is greater. From the beneficiaries perspective better to pay CGT. Likewise the time the administrator is spending communicatating with you will be adding considerable cost to the Estate. Hourly rates can be eyewateringly expensive. 

Having been executor for both my late parents separate estates. Despite being relatively straightforward. The time expended was considerable. Until you're hands on sometimes difficult to appreciate that not just a question of filling in a few forms. 

Marcon

edrussell said:

Hi,

I have a problem with an administrator who I think might be dishonest. The administrator was appointed by Probate Registrar a while back. If anyone has advice can you post. Thanks.  

1) My dad passed intestate. He left his 5 kids his house, shares, cash etc. I estimate in total around £750,000 - £850,000. He lived on the south coast.

2) The probate registrar (PR) appointed a fairly big national firm of solicitors as the administrator of the estate in August 2022.

3) In April 2023 they started work!

4)They have not really outlined a clear strategic approach and seem to be stumbling along wasting time and running up big fees (currently double what they first estimated, now standing at £30,000).

5) The administrator recently sent me a valuation which obviously undervalued my dad’s house by about £100,000. I objected and they did two more, including a RICS valuation; all came in at the around the same price.  

6) I know my old dad’s house well and noticed that a neighbour’s house (almost identical) sold for the figure I would expect. I have been in that house loads of times with my dad, the layout is the same and the décor is also similar

7) The administrator says, after three valuations, he does not want to look at the valuation again and I should wait for the sale blah blah

8) Looking more closely at the valuations I notice that they are populated with non-existent properties which at any rate are nothing like my dad’s and are conveniently priced to match the low price in all three valuations of my dad’s house. This looks very dodgy, like criminal conduct. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing before? 

It is so odd I can scarcely believe it but yeah, they are a load of made of properties in clear colour.

9) I think that the administrator is trying to con me with a load of fake properties. I am not sure what to do about it. I have written a detailed report up, but I am a bit nervous about directly confronting the administrator again. I am of the opinion that I should go over his head report it to the main partner and then the Solicitor professional body if no joy. I don’t want to get bogged down with their internal complaints as it will probably be controlled by the administrator anyway.

I could take it to the cops, but I really want the estate to be sorted out first. Would they be interested anyway? Who knows these days.

There are a lot of other weird things which make me feel like the `Mark’.

Thanks for reading. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Ed

You do seem to be a bit prone to suspicion: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6170938/how-do-i-apply-to-see-the-income-and-expenditure-of-the-poa-after-the-poa-has-ended#latest

Looking at your questions:

2. Any of your father's children could have applied to administer the estate. Why has something else happened and who decided it would?
3. Why the delay?
4. Fees of £15K on an estate this size would be well below the expected level. Have you and your siblings provided all necessary/requested information promptly and helpfully?
5. Why do you think you know better than RICS valuers? The market has been falling rapidly for many months.
7. What's wrong with that suggestion? 
8. Accusing a large firm of solicitors of doing something criminal is a very serious accusation, especially if you can't back it up with facts.
9. This is a civil matter.

If you seriously believe there is wrongdoing, look at the website for the firm in question and follow their complaints procedure. It won't be 'controlled by the administrator' when your complaint is against them.

Keep_pedalling

To have an administrator appointed is very rare so we are only getting a tiny part of the story hear, but it sounds like there are major family issues here which is hinted at in your previous thread regarding your mother’s intestate estate. 

The administrator has obtained a valuation using a RICS surveyor which is the gold standard when valuing an estate for an IHT return. The real value will be what it sells for on the open market.

user1977

Why does it matter to you what the probate valuation is? If the property is being sold on the open market (is it?) then it will fetch whatever its actual market price is.

bobster2

edrussell said:

5) The administrator recently sent me a valuation which obviously undervalued my dad’s house by about £100,000. I objected and they did two more, including a RICS valuation; all came in at the around the same price.  

6) I know my old dad’s house well and noticed that a neighbour’s house (almost identical) sold for the figure I would expect. I have been in that house loads of times with my dad, the layout is the same and the décor is also similar

7) The administrator says, after three valuations, he does not want to look at the valuation again and I should wait for the sale blah blah

What they have done sounds entirely normal and reasonable. And they don't stand to benefit from having a low valuation. In fact if their fee is based on a % of the estate value they would benefit from a higher valuation.

Not sure about the history here (e.g. whether there are transferable allowances from your mother). But if the estate is in IHT territory then a lower valuation could be very helpful in terms of reducing IHT liability.

haze23

In addition to the good points already raised:
I'm assuming that you're talking about a valuation for probate/IHT purposes, yet not registered. I would therefore have thought this would reflect prices at the time, not now, so could be something to bear in mind.

On the face of it, I can't see this being worthwhile, however, you could always obtain separate valuations (from a 2022(?) perspective) if this is something you feel has to be followed up. Again, the 'value' is what you can obtain from a sale.

edrussell

Tucosalamanca said:

How well do you understand the probate process?
In some situations it's very beneficial to have a low property valuation.

Why would the administrator want to con you?
How do you think they are doing this and how do you think they stand to gain?

If you're objecting, getting involved in conversations, requesting additional valuations and so on this all costs money.
A RICS surveyor and solicitors are not cheap and you will quickly run up a bill.

Google is your friend, perhaps some reading over the weekend would be helpful?

Hi thanks for getting back to me. I was told by the administrator that need to provide accurate valuations at all times. For tax reasons and in terms of the beneficiaries. The valuations are not accurate. 

You ask me `Why would the administrator want to con you?' Why does anyone con anyone? Money? Personal dislike? who knows!! 

My point in the original post is clear. There are solely made up profiles with no basis in reality. Fake profiles are normally used by romance scammers and the like, not in legitimate property valuations for probate. 

Thanks anyway
 

Tucosalamanca

Lots of good, accurate advice in this thread.

Have you noticed that no one has raised any concerns about the administrator's conduct?
You've even been assured that all appears normal and it is as expected.

Yet you continue to believe that you are being conned and also appear to know better than the administrators, RICS surveyor and several posters that have kindly replied to you.

What have your siblings got to say about it all, do they share your views?

Marcon

edrussell said:

Tucosalamanca said:

How well do you understand the probate process?
In some situations it's very beneficial to have a low property valuation.

Why would the administrator want to con you?
How do you think they are doing this and how do you think they stand to gain?

If you're objecting, getting involved in conversations, requesting additional valuations and so on this all costs money.
A RICS surveyor and solicitors are not cheap and you will quickly run up a bill.

Google is your friend, perhaps some reading over the weekend would be helpful?

Hi thanks for getting back to me. I was told by the administrator that need to provide accurate valuations at all times. For tax reasons and in terms of the beneficiaries. The valuations are not accurate. 

You ask me `Why would the administrator want to con you?' Why does anyone con anyone? Money? Personal dislike? who knows!! 

My point in the original post is clear. There are solely made up profiles with no basis in reality. Fake profiles are normally used by romance scammers and the like, not in legitimate property valuations for probate. 

Thanks anyway
 

Then go back to the administrator and say precisely that.