List of all EDF tariffs difficult to find

ArbitraryRandom

msknight said:

GingerTim said:

Please don't replace your storage heaters with on-demand electric heaters. Only an electric central heating system is more expensive.

Grateful for links to any figures you've got on that please. 

Two suggestions for you to help with your decision:

First, take a cup with a small hole in it and fill it with water - two choices: 1. constantly trickle water into the cup and try to match the rate of loss; 2. let the cup drain for a while then refill it/top it up. Which uses most water?

(For all practical purposes, both use the same. If we're being pedantic, the first uses a tiny bit more due to the increased weight of the water/water pressure increasing the rate of loss - which is how heat loss works as if the the greater the difference in temp between inside and outside the more heat is lost.)


Second, start from the basis that 1 unit of heat is 1 unit of power. No electric heater is more 'efficient' at converting electricity into heat than any other - the differences are about how/when the heat/energy is released into the room; Anyone who says one type of electric heating is more efficient than another is trying to sell you something... thermodynamics doesn't work that way. 

If you are currently storing 10 units overnight and using them during the day, then (for the same amount of heating) your radiators would need to draw 10 units during the day - so the only figures you need for that comparison are the unit costs (the storage heaters will win as the night rate will be cheaper). 

If, on the other hand, you are regularly using the boost or override functions on your storage heaters as you find the energy is being released at the wrong time or not enough is being stored, then you may benefit from a change.

If that's the case, I would suggest you check if you can change the settings on your existing storage heaters to solve the problem, and if not then you would need to compare buying some panel heaters with the cost of replacement/larger storage heaters (there would be a payback period for installing modern high heat retention storage heaters and if you are expecting to move in a couple of years then buying a few plug in heaters might be worth it, it's unlikely installed ones would).

 

msknight

Thanks for all the advice.

The current storage heaters are coming end of life and some of the balances are difficult. They are also the larger brick type and some of the thermostats are breaking (and then they run away with the heat until we realise they're way too hot and swap out the thermostat)
In the coldest weather the larger rooms are getting too cold in the evening despite having them on high and in the summer we can't just turn them on for a little boost in the evening while watching TV when things are cooling down.

A friend of mine has actually gone over to these radiators and is trying them out with a new house he's re-building.; but he is still on an E7 tariff. He designs electric smart meters for a living; I'm not going to mention company names :-) ... so both he and I are eager to see what the results are. The radiators are on constantly, but during the evening when they are likely to work harder, he still thus gets the cheaper rate for them, and also that solves the water issue. During the day, even though the electricity is more expensive, he's using less in order to maintain the temperature.

Incidentally, after making a tariff choice, EDF are forcing me to convert to a smart meter, or drop out to a standard tariff... the usual thing that the current meter has gone out of date. The fact that they're still happy for me to use the out of date meter on a standard tariff but won't let me continue on something like an April 2026 tariff doesn't sit well. We're in an area with a clock meter, because the radio meters wouldn't work and the smarts stand no chance, but the person on the end of the phone couldn't only follow what the system told her. Now that the meters are SMETS 2 I might consider one... will have a chat with my friend next time I see him.

Scot_39

msknight said:

Phones4Chris said:

What do you mean by "smart radiators" ?

These kinds of things - https://ecostrad.com/smart-electric-radiators/ - radiators that have a "profile" of room usage and try to constantly keep the room at a specified temperature according to day and time of day. The intention is to keep better control of a room temp so stopping the current charge at night/discharge at day that I'm currently having to do with the storage radiators. The theory is that keeping a room at a decent temp all the time is cheaper than letting it get very cold throughout the day and then taking loads of energy to bring it back up to temp, plus the problem of having to plan ahead with storage radiators and sometimes getting it wrong.

Looking at tge iQ series they are not exactly cheap - for a panel heaters - upto £500+ at tge top end.

But the warnings above re day rate vs e7 off peak rate stand  (although I would argue the more accurate comparison is with your average e7 rate over both peak and off peak usage).

I suspect you may be better off considering fitting a HHR series night storage heater.  Something like Dimplex Quantum of Elnur Ecombi.  

They do not "leak heat" overnight or during thd during day like older heaters 

They are more expensive - but each 1000kWh kept at E7 could be saving you £100 at recent rates - recoverable if plan to stay a while.

They have adaptive (self learning charging) - are time / air temp setpoint programmable and if do get caught out - they can  be boosted from live (peak rate) if necessary. 


One HHR in main living space and cheaper programable lot 20 (like Dimplex's sister co Creda's TSRE ) in less demanding spaces - like halls - may be a decent lower cost compromise. 

So I would suggest - Look at heater prices look at your annual peak off peak consumption , your available tariff rates and work out total costs inc running costs over next n years.

Scot_39

msknight said:

Thanks for all the advice.

The current storage heaters are coming end of life and some of the balances are difficult. They are also the larger brick type and some of the thermostats are breaking (and then they run away with the heat until we realise they're way too hot and swap out the thermostat)
In the coldest weather the larger rooms are getting too cold in the evening despite having them on high and in the summer we can't just turn them on for a little boost in the evening while watching TV when things are cooling down.

A friend of mine has actually gone over to these radiators and is trying them out with a new house he's re-building.; but he is still on an E7 tariff. He designs electric smart meters for a living; I'm not going to mention company names :-) ... so both he and I are eager to see what the results are. The radiators are on constantly, but during the evening when they are likely to work harder, he still thus gets the cheaper rate for them, and also that solves the water issue. During the day, even though the electricity is more expensive, he's using less in order to maintain the temperature.

Incidentally, after making a tariff choice, EDF are forcing me to convert to a smart meter, or drop out to a standard tariff... the usual thing that the current meter has gone out of date. The fact that they're still happy for me to use the out of date meter on a standard tariff but won't let me continue on something like an April 2026 tariff doesn't sit well. We're in an area with a clock meter, because the radio meters wouldn't work and the smarts stand no chance, but the person on the end of the phone couldn't only follow what the system told her. Now that the meters are SMETS 2 I might consider one... will have a chat with my friend next time I see him.

Explain how he is getting e7 off peak in the evening ?

In uk generally defined as 6-9pm.

Even in regions with 2+5 time splits - iirc the default dno default start is 10:30 - for those on 7 hr solid it's often midnight to 1 am.


And edf will charge a flat rate I suspect because their main worry is inaccurate timing of the peak off peak rate switching.

Many analogue and digital meters drift - some have drifted hours during lifetime.

Using a meter that has drifted more than 2 hours is I suspect reportable in the same way in other fault would be  - suppliers are obliged to fix one that has.

If your meter currently feeds / switches a restricted supply - make sure you get the equivalent smart e7 with alcs.  A standard e7 meter may only switch tariffs relying on external / device timers.

bob2302

The reason that turning off heating can save energy is that as the temperature falls you lose heat at a lower rate. When you turn the heating on again it takes less heat to restore the temperature than would have been needed to maintain it. Arguments for running heating all the time rely on efficiency being reduced at higher power, which isn't the case here.

The question your friend should be asking himself is how much of the energy used at the cheap rate is actually useful. He should also consider what will happen in the winter when both days and nights are cold.  

msknight

Scot_39 said:

Explain how he is getting e7 off peak in the evening ?

Evening is the wrong word. Night. Overnight. Depends on your sleeping cycle :-:smile:

He does seem to have the best of both worlds. When it's coldest, he's getting the cheapest electricity... and during the day if he gets an opportunity to earn a bonus from lowering his consumption for an hour, all he has to do is turn the panels into "away" or "background heat" mode or whatever it is.

Gerry1

msknight said:

The current storage heaters are coming end of life and some of the balances are difficult. They are also the larger brick type and some of the thermostats are breaking (and then they run away with the heat until we realise they're way too hot and swap out the thermostat)

Old style storage heaters are cheap and easy to repair.  Far better than wasting lots of money on day rate heaters that will bankrupt you.

msknight said:

In the coldest weather the larger rooms are getting too cold in the evening despite having them on high and in the summer we can't just turn them on for a little boost in the evening while watching TV when things are cooling down.

Some meters have a Boost facility so that you can switch on the E7 circuits for an hour, albeit at the very expensive peak rate. Check whether your meter can do this.  Alternatively, consider an oil filled radiator or fan heater for occasional use.

Also check that you're operating them effectively.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UeB3Xf_qKvA

msknight said:

...he is still on an E7 tariff. He designs electric smart meters for a living;

...during the evening when they are likely to work harder, he still thus gets the cheaper rate for them, and also that solves the water issue.

He should therefore be well aware that E7 doesn't kick in until about 10.30pm so it'll cost a fortune unless he's a serious night owl.  If he's relying on a clock timer that's drifted well out of alignment he'll get a very rude awakening when it's reset or replaced.

msknight said:

During the day, even though the electricity is more expensive, he's using less in order to maintain the temperature.

Compared to an old Box of Bricks NSH there will be some savings because heat won't be wasted through the night when it's not needed.  However, this is likely to be outweighed by the very high cost of peak E7.

msknight said:

Incidentally, after making a tariff choice, EDF are forcing me to convert to a smart meter, or drop out to a standard tariff... the usual thing that the current meter has gone out of date. The fact that they're still happy for me to use the out of date meter on a standard tariff but won't let me continue on something like an April 2026 tariff doesn't sit well. We're in an area with a clock meter, because the radio meters wouldn't work and the smarts stand no chance, but the person on the end of the phone couldn't only follow what the system told her. Now that the meters are SMETS 2 I might consider one... will have a chat with my friend next time I see him.

Check when your meter expires.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65ddfab7f1cab30011fc47e3/electricity-meters-schedule-4-240219.pdf

Switch to a friendlier supplier if your meter won't be life expired soon.  You could also ask for an E7 meter with a Boost button.

msknight

bob2302 said:

The question your friend should be asking himself is how much of the energy used at the cheap rate is actually useful. He should also consider what will happen in the winter when both days and nights are cold.  

He's already going through that now. Although he's still doing the building work so not all the rooms are panelled out yet. But he has got rid of the oil boiler and ditched the wet heating system, and also gained some garden space by losing the tank. - he was forced to make a choice because the oil boiler packed up and was having to spend money on that, on top of the price of oil.

He is also experimenting with on-demand water systems, although he's not sure which way he'll jump yet. It'll probably be another twelve months before he's got a decent set of data, but he was using roughly £15 a day (he is now all electric for cooking, heating, etc.) during winter and coming out of it now, he's at about £8 a day. We're waiting to see how low it drops during summer. He lives on a midlands-ish east cost so it gets cold when that wind comes in.

msknight

Gerry1 said:

Old style storage heaters are cheap and easy to repair.  Far better than wasting lots of money on day rate heaters that will bankrupt you.

Some meters have a Boost facility so that you can switch on the E7 circuits for an hour, albeit at the very expensive peak rate. Check whether your meter can do this.  Alternatively, consider an oil filled radiator or fan heater for occasional use.

Cheers for that info. I didn't know about the boost facility.

We do have other problems with some of the radiators. My elderly mother lives with me and the storage radiator in her bedroom dries the air overnight and gives her respiratory trouble. It's not only technical issues with the heaters themselves that we are contending with. 

EDF said that the meter has expired (mine) and they won't let me choose a new tariff unless I go smart. I'm hacked off at this because they're perfectly happy for me to stay using the current expired meter on a standard variable tariff. It just feels like they are punishing me financially because I won't go smart. (edit - I'll go smart when it's right for me... not when they want to force me into something to meet their targets - and as I already have a display that monitors the power by a magnetic clamp on the cables, there is not much else that a dumb smart meter will give me)

I am the one on the timed meter because of radio reception problems, and there is no mobile signal for a smart meter to hook up to where the meter is anyway.

My friend is on a smart meter, it was there when he bought the house. So he can also benefit from the Octopus incentives, etc. 

Gerry1

msknight said:

Gerry1 said:

Old style storage heaters are cheap and easy to repair.  Far better than wasting lots of money on day rate heaters that will bankrupt you.

Some meters have a Boost facility so that you can switch on the E7 circuits for an hour, albeit at the very expensive peak rate. Check whether your meter can do this.  Alternatively, consider an oil filled radiator or fan heater for occasional use.

My elderly mother lives with me and the storage radiator in her bedroom dries the air overnight and gives her respiratory trouble.

Easily fixed with a bowl of water or hanging up a wet towel !  Or buy a humidifier.

msknight said:

EDF said that the meter has expired (mine) and they won't let me choose a new tariff unless I go smart. I'm hacked off at this because they're perfectly happy for me to stay using the current expired meter on a standard variable tariff. It just feels like they are punishing me financially because I won't go smart. (edit - I'll go smart when it's right for me...

If EDF are telling porkies about the certification expiration date, make a formal written complaint.  Go to the ombudsman upon receipt of a deadlock letter, or after eight weeks if they don't send one.