Section 75 Credit Claim for damaged brand new watch

DistortedVision

I just received a new old stock Breilting Chronomat watch which I bought from the website of a jewellers in Knightsbridge, London. It cost £3975 and I paid for it in full by credit card.

There is a noticable dent in the case:



I have contacted some local companies that I've used before for quotes to repair.

I contacted the retailer and told them that I would either accept compensation to cover the cost of the repair based on the quotes I receive or for them to arrange for the watch to be collected and have them organise the repair themselves at their expense.

I was wondering if the retailer refuses either of these options and tells me to return it for a refund. Do I have a valid Section 75 claim against my credit card company in this circumstance?

The watch is otherwise perfect and NOS ones almost never come up for sale. I waited for over 2 years for this one to come up for sale. So I'd prefer not to have to return it.

But I know the repair isn't going to be cheap even though the damage is tiny as it will require a watchmaker to uncase the watch, remove the bracelet, bezel, crystal and case fixtures. Then after the actual laser weld of the dent, re-install and pressure test.

I know most people would leave it as it is but I its really noticeable and I hate things like that on new things.

I've never made a Section 75 claim before so I've no idea if I have a valid claim or not.

BoGoF

Do you really think your CC provider is going to refund you out their own pocket if the retailer is offering to give you what they are obliged to under the CRA?

400ixl

Why have you gone down all these different routes?

If it is new and just delivered in that state, just go back to the retailer to notify then and see what options they come back with. You appear to have over complicated this.

Assume it is new and not a used item?

Grumpy_chap

What, if anything, does the retailer have to classify the condition of "new, old stock"?  Does the condition allow for the watch to have been a display model, or any level of damage?  It is not uncommon that sales of "not new" products have some quality grading in place.

Have you contacted the retailer for the repair or refund?  What has been their response?

Out of interest, if you waited two years to find this particular watch, and it was in perfect condition, would the rarity have resulted in the sales price being higher than "list" price?  How did the price you paid compare to "list" for this particular watch design?

DistortedVision

I contacted the retailer. Yes I'm probably jumping the gun as they are closed today and they will respond tomorrow. I was just wondering that's all.

This was the original listing on their website where I purchased it from:

https://www.hyjewellery.co.uk/breitling-chronomat-b01-chronograph-steel-ref-ab0115101f1a1-2814.html

It says its new and I email them to ask if there was any cosmetic damage prior to purchasing and they said absolutely none. They didn't describe it as "new old stock" just as "new" as you can see. But the watch was discontinued 2 years ago so the term "new old stock" was just something I used.

DistortedVision

Grumpy_chap said:

What, if anything, does the retailer have to classify the condition of "new, old stock"?  Does the condition allow for the watch to have been a display model, or any level of damage?  It is not uncommon that sales of "not new" products have some quality grading in place.

Have you contacted the retailer for the repair or refund?  What has been their response?

Out of interest, if you waited two years to find this particular watch, and it was in perfect condition, would the rarity have resulted in the sales price being higher than "list" price?  How did the price you paid compare to "list" for this particular watch design?

Actually the price is very good, its basically what used ones go for in excellent condition. But I don't think that means I should accept the damage because I specifically asked about any cosmetic damage prior to purchasing.

DistortedVision

BoGoF said:

Do you really think your CC provider is going to refund you out their own pocket if the retailer is offering to give you what they are obliged to under the CRA?

I've never made a Section 75 claim before and I was interested in what is covered. If the retailer is only offering a refund which is all they obliged to under the CRA then no I don't expect I would have a valid claim against my CC provider. 

Grumpy_chap

The watch should be as described, so no damage.
I assume you have notified within 14 days of receipt, so the default right would be to return for full refund (for any, or no, reason). 
You can agree with the retailer alternative - either repair (they get one chance) or a discount to reflect the depreciation from the damage.  If the discount, you can of course, use that value to have the repair carried out elsewhere.

S75 is an alternative route to enforcing your consumer rights via the CC rather than the retailer.  CC will require that you have exhausted the route to remedy via the retailer first.

eskbanker

Grumpy_chap said:

S75 is an alternative route to enforcing your consumer rights via the CC rather than the retailer.  CC will require that you have exhausted the route to remedy via the retailer first.

They might try that but they're not allowed to!  S75 holds the creditor jointly and severally liable, so the card company can't insist on the customer making any contact with the retailer prior to submitting a claim, although in real life it'll usually be in the customer's interests to do so.

The law makes clear that both retailer and credit card company are jointly responsible for Section 75 claims.

It might be easier to first complain to the retailer in some instances – for example if you're looking for a repair or a replacement rather than a refund – but you don't have to.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/#how

Grumpy_chap

eskbanker said:

Grumpy_chap said:

S75 is an alternative route to enforcing your consumer rights via the CC rather than the retailer.  CC will require that you have exhausted the route to remedy via the retailer first.

They might try that but they're not allowed to!  S75 holds the creditor jointly and severally liable, so the card company can't insist on the customer making any contact with the retailer prior to submitting a claim, although in real life it'll usually be in the customer's interests to do so.

The law makes clear that both retailer and credit card company are jointly responsible for Section 75 claims.

It might be easier to first complain to the retailer in some instances – for example if you're looking for a repair or a replacement rather than a refund – but you don't have to.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/#how

Thank you for the important clarification.

I think in practice, most CCs would try to force that contact with the retailer and the first outcome from a challenge would be chargeback.  I am not aware that CCs really have any process for a customer requesting and forcing a CC to process an issue as S75 rather than chargeback in the first instance.

DistortedVision

The retailer has come back to me and either to have offered to have it repaired free of charge at their workshop or £200 of compensation. Their workshop does not do laser welding but every watchmaker I contacted has advised that is the only method of repair. So their repair would involved heavy polishing removing a lot of metal and significantly distorting the shape of the case of the watch. Every watchmaker I spoke to advised against this. The watch is still under warranty under December 2025 and any work at all not done by Breitling would void the warranty.

Breitling removed the accreditation of third party service centres in November 2022 explaining why anyway work done them them would void the warranty and why they none of them were able to give a quote. However, one company told me that an IWC watch with a similar dent cost £300 to repair.  Obviously, Breitling are going to cost a lot more and without sending to their service centre with a cost to quote of £45 I do not now exactly how much. My intention was if I kept the watch to wait until it required servicing as a lot of the cost is the disassembly and reassembly.
Do you think its reasonable to counter their offer of compensation with £300?

I think the credit card provider can be eliminated from the equation and a S75 claim is not an option.