Cardiff Marina - New Generation Parking Management

SLang1214

Not_A_Hope said:

So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?

Their on line system is a trap to obtain confirmation of the driver. Use an email address or Royal Mail. Up to them whether to waste their time in pursuing a claim further

What if they don't acknowledge it? Do I then play the waiting game till I get something from courts etc? If so, do I have any grounds to win based on the situation

Grizebeck

You add a bit in the appeal text .
A tick box is neither here or there and frankly irrelevant 
They accept appeals from the RK

Fruitcake

SLang1214 said:

Not_A_Hope said:

So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?

Their on line system is a trap to obtain confirmation of the driver. Use an email address or Royal Mail. Up to them whether to waste their time in pursuing a claim further

What if they don't acknowledge it? Do I then play the waiting game till I get something from courts etc? If so, do I have any grounds to win based on the situation

The Interpretation Act presumes something sent by post has arrived. Two days for 1st class post, 4 days for second class post. In other words, it you post something, and have proof you posted it, then the law presumes it was delivered.

Send the appeal then wait to see what they do. Come back to this thread if they try a court claim, otherwise ignore everything after your initial appeal.

Do not bother with the Kangaroo Court sometimes referred to as the IAS. It's not independent, and you have a 96% chance of losing.

Umkomaas

NtK Images

https://ibb.co/sK2ng81

https://ibb.co/MZzjc9w

Misleading assertion that they have rights to recover from the keeper. While PoFA isn't mentioned, the phrasing is suggestive of it - and PoFA is the only mechanism for passing liability from the driver to the keeper. 

If the harbour is covered by byelaws (check please), then you should complain to the DVLA about the misrepresentation. It might also be worth a crack at an IAS appeal - see how they worm their way around byelaws 

nopcns

They don't have to mention PoFA as they are not relying on it. They can say what they want in their NtK but it still does not have any effect of transferring liability to the keeper.

As @Grizebeck states, just do an appeal and mention in the appeal the following:

"I am unequivocally appealing this Parking Charge Notice (PCN) solely as the registered keeper of the vehicle, definitely NOT as the driver. However, due to the deliberate restriction of the online appeal system provided by NGPM, there being no option but to tick a box indicating that I am appealing as the driver in order to progress through the appeals process can only be considered as a deliberate attempt to coercively entrap the keeper of the vehicle. This is considered to be a deliberate deceit and, should NGPM try and progress this PCN, I will use this obvious deception to show the court that NGPMs behaviour is both vexatious and unreasonable.

The action of ticking the box stating that the appellant is the driver is taken under protest and does not constitute any admission of liability or a waive my right to appeal solely as the registered keeper as addressed in the PCN. NGPM know full well that, as the keeper, I am not under any legal obligation to disclose the driver's identity. I demand a fair and transparent appeals process that respects my legal position as the registered keeper and allows me to contest the PCN without coercion or deceit."

Oh... and make sure you keep a copy of what you put in the appeal as it is highly probably that you won't receive a transcript of what you enter from the lying scumbags.

SLang1214

Grizebeck said:

You add a bit in the appeal text .
A tick box is neither here or there and frankly irrelevant 
They accept appeals from the RK

Thanks for this. In the below MSE post from June 2021, they seem to have reverted by referring to the statement from their website. In any case, it's not clear if back then the appeal was done via email, or still via their online form requiring confirmation that you are the driver.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/post/quote/6277086/Comment_78441428

SLang1214

Fruitcake said:

SLang1214 said:

Not_A_Hope said:

So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?

Their on line system is a trap to obtain confirmation of the driver. Use an email address or Royal Mail. Up to them whether to waste their time in pursuing a claim further

What if they don't acknowledge it? Do I then play the waiting game till I get something from courts etc? If so, do I have any grounds to win based on the situation

The Interpretation Act presumes something sent by post has arrived. Two days for 1st class post, 4 days for second class post. In other words, it you post something, and have proof you posted it, then the law presumes it was delivered.

Send the appeal then wait to see what they do. Come back to this thread if they try a court claim, otherwise ignore everything after your initial appeal.

Do not bother with the Kangaroo Court sometimes referred to as the IAS. It's not independent, and you have a 96% chance of losing.

Ok, thanks for clarifying about the post.

Fundamentally, I suppose my main question is, if this were to go to court, would I stand to win based on the situation explained (about driver entering the car park to take photos of the car for sale purposes)? If not, the question for me is, am I better off paying the £60, rather than the prospect of paying £200+ if this goes to courts and I lose. Unless, the hope with courts is that I would win on a technicality, rather than the situation that led to the PCN being issued.

SLang1214

Umkomaas said:

NtK Images

https://ibb.co/sK2ng81

https://ibb.co/MZzjc9w

Misleading assertion that they have rights to recover from the keeper. While PoFA isn't mentioned, the phrasing is suggestive of it - and PoFA is the only mechanism for passing liability from the driver to the keeper. 

If the harbour is covered by byelaws (check please), then you should complain to the DVLA about the misrepresentation. It might also be worth a crack at an IAS appeal - see how they worm their way around byelaws 

Thanks for this. How can I check if the marina/harbour is covered by byelaws?

SLang1214

nopcns said:

They don't have to mention PoFA as they are not relying on it. They can say what they want in their NtK but it still does not have any effect of transferring liability to the keeper.

As @Grizebeck states, just do an appeal and mention in the appeal the following:

"I am unequivocally appealing this Parking Charge Notice (PCN) solely as the registered keeper of the vehicle, definitely NOT as the driver. However, due to the deliberate restriction of the online appeal system provided by NGPM, there being no option but to tick a box indicating that I am appealing as the driver in order to progress through the appeals process can only be considered as a deliberate attempt to coercively entrap the keeper of the vehicle. This is considered to be a deliberate deceit and, should NGPM try and progress this PCN, I will use this obvious deception to show the court that NGPMs behaviour is both vexatious and unreasonable.

The action of ticking the box stating that the appellant is the driver is taken under protest and does not constitute any admission of liability or a waive my right to appeal solely as the registered keeper as addressed in the PCN. NGPM know full well that, as the keeper, I am not under any legal obligation to disclose the driver's identity. I demand a fair and transparent appeals process that respects my legal position as the registered keeper and allows me to contest the PCN without coercion or deceit."

Oh... and make sure you keep a copy of what you put in the appeal as it is highly probably that you won't receive a transcript of what you enter from the lying scumbags.

Thank you very much for this text.

So what should my appeal text constitute? Just the blue text template from the stickies? Should I also explain the situation about how the driver ended up in the situation (taking car photos), or not bother with any explanation?

Coupon-mad

I don't understand. @nopcns gave you the appeal wording & you've quoted it.