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Cardiff Marina - New Generation Parking Management
SLang1214
Posts: 21 Forumite
Hi all. Firstly, thanks for reading. Appreciate you taking the time.
Received a PCN from New Generation Parking Management for Cardiff Marina (CF11 0SY). The driver entered the car park and exited 23 minutes later. The driver didn't actually 'park' the car. They only entered as they wanted to take some photos of the car to put it up for sale. The car park provided a suitable background. The driver actually lives right next door and overlooks the car park from their window. Unfortunately, they didn't realise about the private car park conditions and just took photos of the car and left. The NTK arrived in the post about 5 days later (date of notice is 3 days after date of alleged contravention). The reason stated is 'no permit obtained'. The car park is either pay and display, or berth holders of the marina can register their reg at the marina office nearby.
New Generation Parking Management seem to have a pretty poor reputation (who doesn't!). They are part of IPC and offer second stage appeals with IAS. There seems to be unanimous agreement that appealing with IAS is a waste of time. Also, it does seem that NGPM do go down the debt collectors route.
The PCN was discussed with the land owner - the marina office. They sympathised, but unfortunately said they couldn't do anything about it from their end. They recommended that the appeals procedure be used, and claimed they are 'not bad'. They were even happy for me to use the manager's name in the appeal.
With regards first stage appeal, NGPM are shrewd. They only allow appeals from the driver. There is a check-box on their website saying - "I was the driver of the vehicle at the time in question" before proceeding with 'Start Your Appeal'. Cannot start the appeal without ticking this box. Below is the text from their appeals page:
[quote]If you are not the driver of the vehicle at the time in question of the contravention we cannot accept your appeal, if you were the driver of the vehicle and the PCN is currently not in your name, you must update these details before proceeding.
We cannot accept your appeal if the PCN is not in your name.[/quote]
Below are photos of the car park, entrance, and signs from the car park. Having it next door helps in revisiting.
Entrance (street view) - hxxps://ibb.co/hF1hN1F
Car park showing entrance on left - hxxps://ibb.co/wsDPRhN
Car park (photos of the car were being taken at the right corner) - hxxps://ibb.co/8M8KwBW
Entrance sign - hxxps://ibb.co/4Sj7Txj
Signs - hxxps://ibb.co/3Bjc6Lk
Sign next to payment machine - hxxps://ibb.co/KKqwGcV
With regards proof that the driver was taking photos of the car, obviously plenty of photos of the car are available. There is also a photo taken from next door showing photos being taken of the car. See below
hxxps://ibb.co/F3JP9PV
Requesting advice on how to proceed. Proceed with their own appeals process? Will have to tick the checkbox about being the driver.
There are still 4 days left before the £60 charge goes up to £100. They say that appealing freezes the charge at £60.
Received a PCN from New Generation Parking Management for Cardiff Marina (CF11 0SY). The driver entered the car park and exited 23 minutes later. The driver didn't actually 'park' the car. They only entered as they wanted to take some photos of the car to put it up for sale. The car park provided a suitable background. The driver actually lives right next door and overlooks the car park from their window. Unfortunately, they didn't realise about the private car park conditions and just took photos of the car and left. The NTK arrived in the post about 5 days later (date of notice is 3 days after date of alleged contravention). The reason stated is 'no permit obtained'. The car park is either pay and display, or berth holders of the marina can register their reg at the marina office nearby.
New Generation Parking Management seem to have a pretty poor reputation (who doesn't!). They are part of IPC and offer second stage appeals with IAS. There seems to be unanimous agreement that appealing with IAS is a waste of time. Also, it does seem that NGPM do go down the debt collectors route.
The PCN was discussed with the land owner - the marina office. They sympathised, but unfortunately said they couldn't do anything about it from their end. They recommended that the appeals procedure be used, and claimed they are 'not bad'. They were even happy for me to use the manager's name in the appeal.
With regards first stage appeal, NGPM are shrewd. They only allow appeals from the driver. There is a check-box on their website saying - "I was the driver of the vehicle at the time in question" before proceeding with 'Start Your Appeal'. Cannot start the appeal without ticking this box. Below is the text from their appeals page:
[quote]If you are not the driver of the vehicle at the time in question of the contravention we cannot accept your appeal, if you were the driver of the vehicle and the PCN is currently not in your name, you must update these details before proceeding.
We cannot accept your appeal if the PCN is not in your name.[/quote]
This is the link for the NTK. No mention of PoFA on there at all with regards Keeper liability, but they do want to recover the amount from the keeper after 28 days. They actually have the cheek to mention about not using 'misleading and outdated information from Internet forums'
hxxps://ibb.co/sK2ng81
hxxps://ibb.co/MZzjc9w Below are photos of the car park, entrance, and signs from the car park. Having it next door helps in revisiting.
Entrance (street view) - hxxps://ibb.co/hF1hN1F
Car park showing entrance on left - hxxps://ibb.co/wsDPRhN
Car park (photos of the car were being taken at the right corner) - hxxps://ibb.co/8M8KwBW
Entrance sign - hxxps://ibb.co/4Sj7Txj
Signs - hxxps://ibb.co/3Bjc6Lk
Sign next to payment machine - hxxps://ibb.co/KKqwGcV
With regards proof that the driver was taking photos of the car, obviously plenty of photos of the car are available. There is also a photo taken from next door showing photos being taken of the car. See below
hxxps://ibb.co/F3JP9PV
Requesting advice on how to proceed. Proceed with their own appeals process? Will have to tick the checkbox about being the driver.
There are still 4 days left before the £60 charge goes up to £100. They say that appealing freezes the charge at £60.
0
Comments
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Who cares what the charge level is as your not paying2
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Appeal by post using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES.
Send it unaltered from the keeper, save for a one liner that the NTK is not PoFA compliant, and since the marina is not relevant land as defined by the PoFA 2012, and is a place where byelaws apply, the keeper can never be held liable so NPM should cancel now to save themselves money.
Send it first class from a Post Office counter and obtain the all important free proof of purchase.
Authorised harbour byelaws2.doc (cardiffharbour.com)
I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks2 -
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Many ports and railways have their own byelaws and are not classed as relevant land under the POFA regs. You might wish to check.If they have not used a POFA compliant NTK they cannot hold the registered keeper liable for their PCN unless you tell them who was driving in any response including any appeal. If you are unable to use their online appeal system I would write to them and tell them their PCN is not POFA compliant, that they cannot hold the registered keeper liable and should submit their invoice to the driver of the vehicle. As there is no requirement for you to name the driver and will not be doing so.2
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Fruitcake said:Appeal by post using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES.
Send it unaltered from the keeper, save for a one liner that the NTK is not PoFA compliant, and since the marina is not relevant land as defined by the PoFA 2012, and is a place where byelaws apply, the keeper can never be held liable so NPM should cancel now to save themselves money.
Send it first class from a Post Office counter and obtain the all important free proof of purchase.
Thanks for your reply. So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?
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So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?Their on line system is a trap to obtain confirmation of the driver. Use an email address or Royal Mail. Up to them whether to waste their time in pursuing a claim further4
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I disagree. The online system is fine.Not_A_Hope said:So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?Their on line system is a trap to obtain confirmation of the driver. Use an email address or Royal Mail. Up to them whether to waste their time in pursuing a claim further
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Grizebeck said:
I disagree. The online system is fine.Not_A_Hope said:So to confirm, I should appeal by post as keeper and not using their online website, since there the identity of the driver needs to be confirmed. Correct?Their on line system is a trap to obtain confirmation of the driver. Use an email address or Royal Mail. Up to them whether to waste their time in pursuing a claim further
The problem with NGPM's online claim form is that you need to tick a box saying you are the driver. They only accept claims from the driver
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