Did Channel 4, My5, ITV-X, Pluto and Sky News shoot themselves in the foot?

LeesArt

I am setting up a TVL free TV for an elderly relative after their TV broke. 

I got them a decent second hand TV and bought them a ROKU.

I explained that they must never watch LIVE TV on any channel and no BBC iPlayer (I deleted it).

However, when I installed the familiar channels including Channel 4, My5, ITV-X and Sky News they all had a LIVE TV option, we agreed that we did not want the risk of this as we know what TVL goons are like, so we immediately deleted these channels.

With 400,000 people cancelling their TVL in 2023 surely these companies have shot themselves in the foot because they will now deprive their advertisers of the audience who deleted the apps as we did?

If it is not really LIVE TV then why not label it CATCHUP?

I looked in settings and there is no way to completely remove the LIVE menu option nor a separate version of the App without live option.

I then loaded Pluto and it was even more annoying, you load it up and it immediately starts playing TV which would appear to be a live broadcast, you can't turn this off, even if you browse menu options, or try to press pause, it keeps on playing.  If you go to the menu it plays programmes where they are now rather than streaming them from the beginning.

So we deleted Pluto too.

We are looking at subscription channels now and going to cycle the trials one at a time.

Don't the bosses of these App Channels realise that we don't want live TV and will not risk watching their channels in case we get a fine by TVL.  Even if it is not really live, having the word live on the menu suggests that it is and something tells me a Judge would not be certain.

Neil_Jones

LeesArt said:

I am setting up a TVL free TV for an elderly relative after their TV broke. 

I got them a decent second hand TV and bought them a ROKU.

I explained that they must never watch LIVE TV on any channel and no BBC iPlayer (I deleted it).

However, when I installed the familiar channels including Channel 4, My5, ITV-X and Sky News they all had a LIVE TV option, we agreed that we did not want the risk of this as we know what TVL goons are like, so we immediately deleted these channels.

With 400,000 people cancelling their TVL in 2023 surely these companies have shot themselves in the foot because they will now deprive their advertisers of the audience who deleted the apps as we did?

If it is not really LIVE TV then why not label it CATCHUP?

I looked in settings and there is no way to completely remove the LIVE menu option nor a separate version of the App without live option.

I then loaded Pluto and it was even more annoying, you load it up and it immediately starts playing TV which would appear to be a live broadcast, you can't turn this off, even if you browse menu options, or try to press pause, it keeps on playing.  If you go to the menu it plays programmes where they are now rather than streaming them from the beginning.

So we deleted Pluto too.

We are looking at subscription channels now and going to cycle the trials one at a time.

Don't the bosses of these App Channels realise that we don't want live TV and will not risk watching their channels in case we get a fine by TVL.  Even if it is not really live, having the word live on the menu suggests that it is and something tells me a Judge would not be certain.

I presume you are aware that if the relative in question is 75+ and in receipt of Pension Credit the licence is free?

Anyway before you bought this TV was there a licence in place or not?  What were they doing before?

Anyway the apps are complimentary to the TV services and some people will find the "Live" TV option useful.  The fact you won't is beside the point.

LeesArt

Neil_Jones said:

LeesArt said:

I am setting up a TVL free TV for an elderly relative after their TV broke. 

I got them a decent second hand TV and bought them a ROKU.

I explained that they must never watch LIVE TV on any channel and no BBC iPlayer (I deleted it).

However, when I installed the familiar channels including Channel 4, My5, ITV-X and Sky News they all had a LIVE TV option, we agreed that we did not want the risk of this as we know what TVL goons are like, so we immediately deleted these channels.

With 400,000 people cancelling their TVL in 2023 surely these companies have shot themselves in the foot because they will now deprive their advertisers of the audience who deleted the apps as we did?

If it is not really LIVE TV then why not label it CATCHUP?

I looked in settings and there is no way to completely remove the LIVE menu option nor a separate version of the App without live option.

I then loaded Pluto and it was even more annoying, you load it up and it immediately starts playing TV which would appear to be a live broadcast, you can't turn this off, even if you browse menu options, or try to press pause, it keeps on playing.  If you go to the menu it plays programmes where they are now rather than streaming them from the beginning.

So we deleted Pluto too.

We are looking at subscription channels now and going to cycle the trials one at a time.

Don't the bosses of these App Channels realise that we don't want live TV and will not risk watching their channels in case we get a fine by TVL.  Even if it is not really live, having the word live on the menu suggests that it is and something tells me a Judge would not be certain.

I presume you are aware that if the relative in question is 75+ and in receipt of Pension Credit the licence is free?

Anyway before you bought this TV was there a licence in place or not?  What were they doing before?

Anyway the apps are complimentary to the TV services and some people will find the "Live" TV option useful.  The fact you won't is beside the point.

I am aware, they are not eligible 

They have cancelled their TVL 

No the Apps are a service, the delivery method is via a different platform is all, some even have add-on prices so not complimentary.

It should be obvious from my post that they do not find the Live TV option useful along with 400,000 who dumped the BBC last year.

Those that DO want live TV can use the TV's built in facilities, we chose to get a ROKU because of the portability and the ability to load apps, it can be brought to me to change config for example.

The FACT is that  you completely missed my point.

They have shot themselves in the foot.

oldernonethewiser

I don't think anyone has shot themsleves in the foot.

Never click the "live" option then you will never be watching live TV.

Emmia

What is the risk of your relative forgetting not to watch live TV? Your relative never wants to watch the news, a royal wedding (or funeral) or strictly live?

Personally I don't understand the "hate" for the BBC and I think that if you consume it's content, e.g. radio, iPlayer, websites etc. then you should pay for a licence even though it's not required legally - in comparison to Sky / Amazon etc. the licence fee is a bargain.

oldernonethewiser

If the BBC started charging for radio and websites I might consider paying for them.

Currently they don't so I don't pay them anything.

Neil49

You are over thinking the definition of Live tv - particularly when it comes to something like Pluto. 

Take a look at this MSE page which defines what Live tv is 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/broadband-and-tv/tv-licence/#needtoknow-1

On streaming channels "Live tv" is classed as programmes on something like ITVX that are being broadcast simultaneously on ITV. That doesn't happen with something like Pluto which just streams a programme to grab your attention.

Read the content of the link before you end up with nothing to watch at all. 

amanda1024

Emmia said:

What is the risk of your relative forgetting not to watch live TV? Your relative never wants to watch the news, a royal wedding (or funeral) or strictly live?

Personally I don't understand the "hate" for the BBC and I think that if you consume it's content, e.g. radio, iPlayer, websites etc. then you should pay for a licence even though it's not required legally - in comparison to Sky / Amazon etc. the licence fee is a bargain.

Presumably this is about moneysaving (the whole point of this site!) rather than ‘hate’. I don’t mind the BBC but have never had a licence because it’s such poor value for money - netflix or amazon subscription is significantly cheaper per month (sky’s another story - and don’t you need a licence too?). A lot of BBC content is available on netflix (thus part of my subscription funds the BBC), plus I buy the occasional DVD (i.e. paying directly for the content I’m most interested in).

LeesArt

oldernonethewiser said:

I don't think anyone has shot themsleves in the foot.

Never click the "live" option then you will never be watching live TV.

Well Pluto displays live TV from the moment the App loads.

The issue is that if a TVL goon takes a photo from a window (something they have been seen doing) and they see a menu option that says LIVE TV then they will use that to get a Warrant and then falsify evidence ((something they have been seen doing).

It seems mad to be that the mainstream channels have catch up channels but put the LIVE one on their App.

LeesArt

oldernonethewiser said:

I don't think anyone has shot themsleves in the foot.

Never click the "live" option then you will never be watching live TV.

I do think so, 400k last year alone and millions before that, the "I never clicked it" excuse will not cut it in Court, it is the same reason why people cut or remove their terrestrial aerial cable.  The goons have been videos plugging them back in and even installing BBC iPlayer on some devices.  They won't get in your home without a warrant although the vulnerable might let them in, but if they take photo or just go to the window with their body cam on the risk is there.

I just deleted the apps, there are other Apps that don't make this mistake.

Neil49

You obviously haven't bothered to read the contents of the link I posted above because if you had then you would realise that you are completely wrong in your assumptions. 

A quick section of the link states 

"However, you do not need a TV licence if you only watch content after it's been shown on television – UNLESS it's on BBC iPlayer. TV programmes downloaded or streamed after broadcast on other catch-up services are fine without one" 

I've just checked Pluto tv and although it comes up saying "Live tv" it is just an old film that they are streaming at that moment in time. It does NOT require a tv licence to watch it.

Read the link in my post!