Origin take on of SSE services

BikingBud

Trying to understand and possibly unpick a situation whereby Origin took over the provision of broadband and phone from SSE.

MiL had triple contract energy (gas and electric) broadband and phone from SSE.

Energy went to Ovo and all seems good.

BB and phone went to origin, they seem to be really poor and are increasing prices, end of contract and CPI+ increase, with limited advice/notification.

We are looking to raise a formal complaint as extra cost for paper billing is discriminatory, OAP with no IT access, they advised sending the bill elsewhere!

I am trying to see if the MiL has letters etc to advise the Ts&Cs of the take on services and contract renewal or cancellation clauses.

Can anybody advise what TOS protection might be in place and would the original SSE Ts&Cs run on to the customer's benefit?

Neil_Jones

BikingBud said:

Trying to understand and possibly unpick a situation whereby Origin took over the provision of broadband and phone from SSE.

MiL had triple contract energy (gas and electric) broadband and phone from SSE.

Energy went to Ovo and all seems good.

BB and phone went to origin, they seem to be really poor and are increasing prices, end of contract and CPI+ increase, with limited advice/notification.

We are looking to raise a formal complaint as extra cost for paper billing is discriminatory, OAP with no IT access, they advised sending the bill elsewhere!

I am trying to see if the MiL has letters etc to advise the Ts&Cs of the take on services and contract renewal or cancellation clauses.

Can anybody advise what TOS protection might be in place and would the original SSE Ts&Cs run on to the customer's benefit?

Why are you dealing with this now?

The Origin thing happened two years ago.   TalkTalk acquired Ovo Energy’s (SSE) base of 135,000 retail phone and broadband customers in 2022. In 2021 TalkTalk also acquired 100% of the share capital of the recently formed OB Telecom, which now trades as Origin Broadband.

So you're basically dealing with TalkTalk under the hood.  If you had a fixed deal it's probably run out by now.

If you're not happy with the provider pick somebody else, though you'll probably find most of them will charge for paper copies; why can you not just print them out yourself instead of paying whatever Origin charge?  That would probably be cheaper as you wouldn't have to pay for the postage as well.

southsidergs

BikingBud said:

We are looking to raise a formal complaint as extra cost for paper billing is discriminatory, OAP with no IT access, they advised sending the bill elsewhere!

So why does she have bb then? It's not discriminatory, if bb is being supplied there's a way of viewing the bills online available it's as simple as that

BikingBud

Thanks for the response but as I said it is for my mother in law. And it is not just about being cheap, there are plenty of things that are cheap that are unfit for purpose.

The transition came without any additional cost so there was no real concern. We only became aware yesterday when she mentioned that they were going to charge her for paper bills and we saw all the proposed increases!  I understand that when they were challenged they became quite aggressive and had very little customer empathy. Whilst I am very happy on line and all my bills and banking occurs in this manner, she very firmly remains, not surprisingly, old school!

Despite many other things she is very independent and can manage most aspects of day to day living but also like many of her age as she has managed for over 85 years without this technology why should she be forced to try and adopt it nowadays;

 https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/nov/26/britons-digital-banking-shopping-parking

It is worth remembering that many older people paid their bills by going to the counter in the gas and electricity board or water authority shop, presenting a bill, paying cash and getting the bill stamped. They see no value or benefits in current methods and despite enticement to pay by DD and use online billing they prefer to see something they can trust. There are many issues on the energy board where people mistake what they pay monthly for what they are liable for, perhaps they are also on other methods of billing and are therefore not aware of problems that are building.

We have already suggested she moves to a different provider but and I understand how trivial that is but was seeking any knowledge or comment about likely legacy Ts&Cs. I will review the paperwork once we get the opportunity.

BikingBud

southsidergs said:

BikingBud said:

We are looking to raise a formal complaint as extra cost for paper billing is discriminatory, OAP with no IT access, they advised sending the bill elsewhere!

So why does she have bb then? It's not discriminatory, if bb is being supplied there's a way of viewing the bills online available it's as simple as that

That's a very broad assumption to make and also demonstrates a level of technical naivety and incompetence, how can you look at bills on BB? You also need suitable devices and knowledge, operating skills. Presence of BB does not infer anything!

BB is to support Alexa a very simple and effective route to day to day communicating between family members, eg Alexa call Shazza, and perhaps more importantly also as a voice activated emergency calling system:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G6WYZPF5XKHNBZKA

But thanks for your assistance, have a nice day!

Neil_Jones

BikingBud said:

It is worth remembering that many older people paid their bills by going to the counter in the gas and electricity board or water authority shop, presenting a bill, paying cash and getting the bill stamped. They see no value or benefits in current methods and despite enticement to pay by DD and use online billing they prefer to see something they can trust. There are many issues on the energy board where people mistake what they pay monthly for what they are liable for, perhaps they are also on other methods of billing and are therefore not aware of problems that are building.

In fairness that "issue" you highlight on the energy board is not unique to older people, and seven times out of ten the issues they complain about were self inflicted in the first place so its not a fair comparison.

That aside things move on.  They have to, otherwise we'd still be writing on cave walls, standing around naked and eating the deer we've just killed.

BikingBud said:

That's a very broad assumption to make and also demonstrates a level of technical naivety and incompetence, how can you look at bills on BB? You also need suitable devices and knowledge, operating skills. Presence of BB does not infer anything!

Modern versions of Windows have everything you need built in, and I dare say you could get by perfectly happily for the most part without any extra software.  If you can click a link on a webpage then you can look at your bill.

It costs the provider money to print and post, why shouldn't they charge for that?  If you want the paper bill, print it yourself.

BikingBud

Neil_Jones said:

BikingBud said:

It is worth remembering that many older people paid their bills by going to the counter in the gas and electricity board or water authority shop, presenting a bill, paying cash and getting the bill stamped. They see no value or benefits in current methods and despite enticement to pay by DD and use online billing they prefer to see something they can trust. There are many issues on the energy board where people mistake what they pay monthly for what they are liable for, perhaps they are also on other methods of billing and are therefore not aware of problems that are building.

In fairness that "issue" you highlight on the energy board is not unique to older people, and seven times out of ten the issues they complain about were self inflicted in the first place so its not a fair comparison.

That aside things move on.  They have to, otherwise we'd still be writing on cave walls, standing around naked and eating the deer we've just killed.

BikingBud said:

That's a very broad assumption to make and also demonstrates a level of technical naivety and incompetence, how can you look at bills on BB? You also need suitable devices and knowledge, operating skills. Presence of BB does not infer anything!

Modern versions of Windows have everything you need built in, and I dare say you could get by perfectly happily for the most part without any extra software.  If you can click a link on a webpage then you can look at your bill.

It costs the provider money to print and post, why shouldn't they charge for that?  If you want the paper bill, print it yourself.

I would offer the majority of people do not review their bills because they are only provided on-line and aggregated  unmonitored monthly outgoings are just an excuse for much hardship and many debts.

Whereas a bill in the post advising that you owe them money would prompt earlier consideration of their usage v the DD payments but we digress.

When I say windows, and they are fairly modern double glazed units, she says the man came and cleaned them last week!

How do you expect that she can see the link? Do you expect that she goes out and buys a computer to enable this? And seeks training so that she can use it? Understand what a web browser is? Understand how important on-line security is? Understand how to complete on-line registration and select secure passwords? All just to enable access to review a bill once per month - very effective, very efficient, very MSE.

She does want to be self sufficient, she does want to see her bills, she does want make that comparison and understand where her money is going, expecting a company to have empathy with older customers and to make accommodations for the elderly and infirm should not be considered unusual in fact it should be the norm see Octopus

And in your progression from writing on cave walls and eating freshly killed deer you might wish to consider that in rural areas during and just after the War, people were killing deer, poaching, were living off the chickens, pigs and goats in their back yards, picking fresh vegetables from the land, baking their own bread, using outside earth closets and bathing in a tin bath in front of the fire. None of that required technology yet progress was made in the last 80 years, a lot of it in the last 15 years, when bizarrely the MiL has stopped working, is happy listening to the wireless or watching BBC and ITV and has no need for any other channels and no need for many of those technological wonders.

Assumptions!

Neil_Jones

I think you've completely missed the point to be fair.

Your complaint seems to be totally around the charge for paper billing, but you've got full blown internet setup just sitting there.  Why was broadband purchased in the first place with no intent to use it?  You mention Alexa as an emergency contact, but that's not a substitute for calling 999 when there are other solutions available to do the same job that may be more reliable - when there's no internet connection Alexa is about as much good as a chocolate teapot.

Sounds to me like the easiest solution to your overarching complaint is to get the log-in details for the My Account area and use a printer - your own or otherwise.

With regards to assumptions, well if you don't tell the full story they'll have to be made.

BikingBud

I have not provided the full story because first it is private and second it is not relevant.

Yes the complaint is about charges for paper billing and understanding the Ts&Cs that might be applicable after Origin took over as service provider from SSE. Yet you have driven the discussion to an area where completely irrelevant factors are being introduced.

Here we go more assumptions  - I am sure you know all this but just in case.

Having BB is not a "full blown internet set up", it provides an access point to which many diverse and discrete devices may be connected. Those devices may included any, or all, of the following; VoIP phones, sonos or similar smart speaker system, hive or similar home management system, firestick or similar streaming device, security monitoring systems, vehicle charging systems, laptop computers, desk top computers, tablet pc devices including iPad or similar and likely many others. Tech savvy users may have all of those and more but all provide differing functions yet need a common gateway, delivered by the ISP. Hence the BB connection, to enable one functional element only Alexa smart speaker with emergency calling capability.

Loss internet connectivity will take out all these services not just Alexa.

Hot breaking news:

• Old people fall over.
• In their own homes.
• They break bones.
• They are unable to move.
• They cannot therefore reach the fixed phone line to ring 999.
• They also feel that they don't need to call 999. "Many older adults are reluctant to report a fall because they mistakenly think falling is a normal part of growing older. Or they fear that their activities will be restricted or they will be institutionalized. "
• They don't want to bother people.
• But would call a friend or family member who will call 999.
• The introduction of another method to call assistance is recommend by a number of organisations:
• https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/falls/

Even the sun was commenting about it 7 years ago!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4208891/alexa-amazon-my-family-sos-oaps/#:~:text=Anyone%20who%20suffers%20a%20fall%20simply%20has%20to%20shout%20%22Alexa,law%20was%20diagnosed%20with%20dementia.

Other calling services are available:
https://www.lifeconnect24.co.uk/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_9yS7_TzhAMVAJFQBh3GQwSjEAAYASAAEgJ2QvD_BwE

But these all require a system connection perhaps something like a phone line or broadband connection and we are back to the same position  

So now we appear to have addressed and hopefully got beyond your prejudice, bias and assumptions are you able to offer any response to the actual question I asked?

Can anybody advise what TOS protection might be in place and would the original SSE Ts&Cs run on to the customer's benefit?

ETA - Now you want me to buy a printer or source access to one! Or was that just another assumption that I have one?

The account will not be staying with Origin which is why I was asking about the Ts&Cs.