1,000,000 car finance complaints submitted since MSE’s tool launched on 6 February 2024

[Deleted User]

Laura_Norder said:

What happened to people taking personal responsibility for their decisions? Every person who took out one of these loans was told exactly what they would be paying and what the rate of interest would be. If they didn't like it, why didn't they walk away and look elsewhere for another car or another personal loan or both?

It is hardly a novel concept for a car dealer to try to get the maximum amount of cash from a buyer, whether that be in cash, commission, loan rate, extended warranty, service plans, GAP insurance, wheels and tyre cover, paint protection, fabric protection, chip and dent protection and the rest. It is common knowledge among the British public, which is why haggling over a car purchase is almost a national sport.

This wasn't mis-selling, it was mis-buying.

This is such a daft argument. The same can be said of most victims of crime, especially financial crime.

Ammah45

Personal responsibility, consumer gulibility and laziness etc. etc. 

If we apply this logic to everything else, we will never need rules or a regulator for anything. Heavenly bliss!!!

Can we extend it to the victims of cold-callers from Nigeria and India trying to scam people?

Jinglish

TheBanker said:

Jinglish said:

I don’t get why people think it’s ok because “you can walk away” or “well you knew the monthly payments” that’s not the point. In my view its not only miss-selling its actually stealing or being ripped off. It was deliberately hidden from the customer which its wrong regardless if you can afford it or not.

How is it stealing? The customer knew the rate they were being offered. They knew the monthly cost. They should have known that there are other ways of financing a purchase. And ultimatley they must have been happy with the rate offered otherwise they would not have signed the agreement.

Would you expect to know how much the dealer had purchased the car for, and how much they'd spent on the MOT etc, so that you could decide if you thought their profit margin was acceptable? Or do you base your decision on the price of the car, less any discount you can negotiate, and taking into account  the price of similar cars being sold elsewhere? If you part-ex, do you go back to find out how much they sold your car on for to make sure their profit margin was reasonable?

When I bought my last but one car, I was borrowing to pay for it. Before I went anywhere near the dealer, I got a personal loan quote from my bank. Only a soft search and it gave me an idea of how much a loan would cost. When I found the right car, I let the dealer quote me for finance. I said his quote was too expensive. He did the "I'll talk to the Manager" thing and I ended up with a deal that cost me less overall than the bank loan would have. Maybe the first quote included commission which they reduced/removed to secure the deal. Maybe they did something else. I don't really care - I just know I was happy with the deal and presumably the salesman was as well.

You might say "ah, but you're a banker so you know how these things work". Yes, that's true, but Martin Lewis does a pretty good job of explaining things. 

It was not made clear this was negotiable or they were marking up otherwise it could be haggled. We are aware that the price of the car can be negotiated and the price of any trade in. I am fully aware of the “four squares” selling tactic but many not. But when the dealer shows you a finance agreement with a headed Barclays paper stating this is the rate but secretly they have added a few percentage this is the dishonest stealing part. I am aware that people can do their own finance checks beforehand but when the dealer says the finance provider we use is offering you this “fixed” rate that immediately implies that 1 square is fixed from the bank and the dealer has no wiggle room when that’s clearly miss-selling. Why has the FCA banned it?

DullGreyGuy

Jinglish said:
Why has the FCA banned it?

There is a Nietzsche quote that would fit in well here about how each age has thought their perception of right/wrong moral/immoral was "correct" and immutable. Time shows us that these things do change over time and are often cyclical. Cant find it though.

We used to be able to price motor insurance based on if you were male or female, we cannot any more, now we are out of Europe I wouldn't be surprised if it didnt come back at some point. We used to be able to discount cash settlements for claims for the discounts we received, then it wasn't allowed, now it is allowed again. 

For decades regulators were comfortable that loyal customers cross subsidised new customer discounts, for some reason this isn't allowed in Motor and Home any more but is allowed in Pet, Travel, Credit Cards, Savings Accounts etc. 

Personally I do think APRs are a little different because they dont tend to be negotiable however there is always the option of alternative finance. I also question just how much we should protect people from themselves and impulse purchases. The consequences of some of the changes above has been those that did used to shop around, do their research before going to the dealership/bank etc are now paying more than before when the regulations came. 

TheBanker

Jinglish said:

TheBanker said:

Jinglish said:

I don’t get why people think it’s ok because “you can walk away” or “well you knew the monthly payments” that’s not the point. In my view its not only miss-selling its actually stealing or being ripped off. It was deliberately hidden from the customer which its wrong regardless if you can afford it or not.

How is it stealing? The customer knew the rate they were being offered. They knew the monthly cost. They should have known that there are other ways of financing a purchase. And ultimatley they must have been happy with the rate offered otherwise they would not have signed the agreement.

Would you expect to know how much the dealer had purchased the car for, and how much they'd spent on the MOT etc, so that you could decide if you thought their profit margin was acceptable? Or do you base your decision on the price of the car, less any discount you can negotiate, and taking into account  the price of similar cars being sold elsewhere? If you part-ex, do you go back to find out how much they sold your car on for to make sure their profit margin was reasonable?

When I bought my last but one car, I was borrowing to pay for it. Before I went anywhere near the dealer, I got a personal loan quote from my bank. Only a soft search and it gave me an idea of how much a loan would cost. When I found the right car, I let the dealer quote me for finance. I said his quote was too expensive. He did the "I'll talk to the Manager" thing and I ended up with a deal that cost me less overall than the bank loan would have. Maybe the first quote included commission which they reduced/removed to secure the deal. Maybe they did something else. I don't really care - I just know I was happy with the deal and presumably the salesman was as well.

You might say "ah, but you're a banker so you know how these things work". Yes, that's true, but Martin Lewis does a pretty good job of explaining things. 

It was not made clear this was negotiable or they were marking up otherwise it could be haggled. We are aware that the price of the car can be negotiated and the price of any trade in. I am fully aware of the “four squares” selling tactic but many not. But when the dealer shows you a finance agreement with a headed Barclays paper stating this is the rate but secretly they have added a few percentage this is the dishonest stealing part. I am aware that people can do their own finance checks beforehand but when the dealer says the finance provider we use is offering you this “fixed” rate that immediately implies that 1 square is fixed from the bank and the dealer has no wiggle room when that’s clearly miss-selling. Why has the FCA banned it?

It wasn't made clear it was negotiable, but it was made clear what the interest rate was. And everyone should have known that there were other options (bank loan, use savings, buy a cheaper car) if the rate was too high. All I care about is how much I pay, I don't really care how much the saleman is earning. 

Ammah45

You know what leaves a bad taste in the mouth? It's that the salesperson is being all nice and courteous the whole way, makes you feel he/she is on your side, and you are getting a great deal etc etc.
Then you find out it was all a lie and they were actively and intentionally deceiving you all along. 

I am not naive, I know what is involved in sales. But on human level, it just leaves a bitter taste. It doesn't help their reputation and it erodes trust even further.

Alfieairedale1947

I’ve received the following from Mobilize:

” After reviewing our records, we can tell you that no commission was paid to the supplying dealer for your introduction.”

I assume they are being truthful but how would the consumer know? 

Nasqueron

Alfieairedale1947 said:

I’ve received the following from Mobilize:

” After reviewing our records, we can tell you that no commission was paid to the supplying dealer for your introduction.”

I assume they are being truthful but how would the consumer know? 

Because they would risk massive fines (e.g. £20m for Clydesdale bank over PPI) if they lied

DullGreyGuy

Ammah45 said:

You know what leaves a bad taste in the mouth? It's that the salesperson is being all nice and courteous the whole way, makes you feel he/she is on your side, and you are getting a great deal etc etc.
Then you find out it was all a lie and they were actively and intentionally deceiving you all along. 

I am not naive, I know what is involved in sales. But on human level, it just leaves a bitter taste. It doesn't help their reputation and it erodes trust even further.

The sales person is never on your side and every sale they do is the best deal thats ever been done even though yesterday they sold the identical car for £1,000 less to someone else who negotiated harder.  Their job is to maximise profit for their employers, that said there will always create a tension between volume of sales and sales margin. 

Last car I bought I agreed a price and was ready to sign the paperwork when the dealer phoned back and said they could knock an extra £X off the price as the £X meant little in extra commission on that sale but the overall sale put them in the next bracket of commissions for the quarter which made a big difference hence wanting to ensure I wasn't tempted away by anyone else. Sure in that case it worked out well for me but only because it worked out better for the dealer. 

jcb208

Barclays PLC has launched a legal challenge over a ruling that it unfairly paid commission to a car finance broker, Sky News reported late Monday