Can a Smart meter be installed flat (horizontally)?

gm0

Cunning but hard to tell if it will work without a dimensioned drawing of the new meter.

If it's forward enough to be clear of the Wylex at the back - on a new mini back board - then the tails will likely be heading back and down not direct down from the meter case.  A tricky radius below will thus limit how far forward it can come. Based on the way the terminals are on the meter.  And slot directly beneath (more or less)

And if it's not far forward enough for the Wylex to clear above - so that the tails *can* just drop and loop sideways around and then bend backwards to the existing setup depth with a bend radius - then in that case the top of the comms unit may not clear the bottom front of the wylex - this of course depending on the exact height of the unit they bring and try to mount including connections between etc. Of course if it all fitted beneath the Wylex anyway there would be no issue to solve.

But your idea may well help an installer - find an extra few cm if its a problematic edge case.

Perhaps some angle bracket and a cut to size piece of board prepared would be handy for *you* to quickly fit a miniboard at shallower depth - if that's the difference between a successful installation and failure. They are rather resistant to doing joinery.  Not part of the brief for the outsourced installers from the suppliers. 

And you will need to convince on the day that it will fit with the one quick bodge.  Or they won't want to take the old one out not knowing they can fit the new.  Also part of their brief.

This is provided of course - you could drill pilot holes to the right for a board bracket with impunuty - cables, pipes etc once the meter is out.  Another reason they won't be doing it.

Installer will not be happy to just sit it there with the tails hanging off it sat in free space.  Will want to mount it to something.  Mounted to backboards is a long term part of the canon

Phones4Chris

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the space occupied by the existing meter and tails is 220mm in height, so several SM's with the Toshiba Comms hub and the most flexible tails should just fit, but with @Reaper 's cunning plan of it's mounting being brought forward so that the tails can partly sit in the "trench" sounds like a plan that might work. BUT the meter and comms unit protrude circa a further 45mm from the front of the ports, so there'd need to be enough clearance between the "trench" and the cupboard cover - it looks as though there might be (but see further questions later). Also, which way does the cover on the lower CU open, does it hinge downwards?

The meter installer may no doubt want to install a new fire-proof backboard for the meter anyway so you'd need to provide some cross-timbers the width of the existing meter and thick enough to bring the front of the new backboard to circa 12mm from the back of the "trench" that's the rough distance between the back of the meter and the back of the ports. Also need the screws etc to fix the cross-timbers to the back of the existing space - what's the back made of, timber (looks as though it may be chipboard), brick or stone? 

@gm0 's suggestion about looking at more modern and perhaps compact and reconfigured CUs is also worth looking at. @Reaper Who quoted £600 to move the CUs by the way? If it was that lot whose labels are all over the existing, I'd be getting several quotes from elsewhere about reconfiguring the CUs in the existing space.
What's the reason for two CUs? Was it simply because the number of circuits couldn't be fitted into one CU or do the two serve completely seperate parts of the premises? How many circuits are there in total?
What's the width of that "cupboard" space?

In your first picture of the meter, what's that metal "cover?" fixed on the right hand side immediately to the right of the meter? Also in front of the tails on the right, there's some sort of bracket - can that be got rid of?

Reaper

Phones4Chris said:

which way does the cover on the lower CU open, does it hinge downwards?

Yes, they both hinge downwards

what's the back made of, timber (looks as though it may be chipboard), brick or stone? 

It's hard to see as a think backboard of some kind covers it, but I'm guessing brick underneath.

@gm0 's suggestion about looking at more modern and perhaps compact and reconfigured CUs is also worth looking at. @Reaper Who quoted £600 to move the CUs by the way? If it was that lot whose labels are all over the existing, I'd be getting several quotes from elsewhere about reconfiguring the CUs in the existing space.
What's the reason for two CUs? Was it simply because the number of circuits couldn't be fitted into one CU or do the two serve completely seperate parts of the premises? How many circuits are there in total?
What's the width of that "cupboard" space?

The house is a converted bungalow so the additional CU is largely for upstairs. The main CU has 8 circuits in use and the smaller one 5. I gather when fitting a CU it's compulsory to add a couple more spares too, so I don't think they can be replaced with a single new unit.

The cupboard width space is about 34cms.

In your first picture of the meter, what's that metal "cover?" fixed on the right hand side immediately to the right of the meter? Also in front of the tails on the right, there's some sort of bracket - can that be got rid of?

The metal cover does not appear to do anything, I can't feel anything inside it so it is either an old mounting or cable run. The bracket is redundant so could be removed. 

Phones4Chris

Hmm, looks like you are a bit between a rock and a hard place! The issue with mounting the meter further forward is it looks like getting in the way of the cover of the smaller CU.
PS. You never said who quoted you the £600 btw, the company whose stickers are all over the CUs?

Reaper

Phones4Chris said:

PS. You never said who quoted you the £600 btw, the company whose stickers are all over the CUs?

I got 2 quotes, one was that company, but they both came in for similar amounts. It's also a bit of a pain extending the box upwards to where the mini CU would have to be moved, but that's a minor issue.

Reaper

In a PM you asked for a picture of the open mini CU. Here you go:



Height 23cm, width 16.5cm

You also mentioned the Aclara SGM1416-B is 170mm high including the comms unit. If so that is probably the simplest and best solution. As I have 220mm of space that leaves 50mm for the tails which ought to be just enough.

Many thanks for the info.

Phones4Chris

@Reaper Sorry for delayed response. It doesn't look as though the CU cover wouldn't be able to be opened (but not hang down) if the meter was moved forward, obviously you can judge that better than I can just from the picture.

I've recently been able to measure two Kaifa meters, one with a WNC Comms unit, the other with a Toshiba Comms unit., both were 190mm, so you don't want a Kaifa.
The standard 4 port Aclara is a SGM1412-B. I'd have thought one of those or the EDMI-10S were your best chance of a fit.

Another thought, what's the width of the space to the left of the smaller CU, and the height between the bottom of the earth block and the top of the DNO cut-out. Difficult to see what's there from the earlier photo (apart from the Henley style blocks with the tails).

Reaper

Thaks for checking. There is zero space to the left of the smaller CU. I am due to have smart meters installed on the 30th and have messaged the installers to ask them to bring an Aclara. I will let you know how it goes.

Phones4Chris

Reaper said:

Thaks for checking. There is zero space to the left of the smaller CU. .........

Well there clearly is space as the Henley style connector blocks are there to the left of the smaller CU. There may be around 200mm width depending on the size of the blocks. And can't judge the height that could be available.

Reaper

I just thought I should give an update to all those who helped...

Although I suggested a variety of options the installer said none were practical to install a Smart meter.

Am I upset I can't currently sell PV electricity back to my provider..? No, because in a plot twist I have just realised my meter runs backwards when I export PV electricity. I have owned up and told my provider and left them to decide what to do next since they own the meter. I'm in no hurry any more!