Help Against Gladstone Solicitors After Letter Of Claim

ManFromWaySouth

Hi There

I am new to all this and have spent the last few months trying to understand the system and the appropriate responses. I have sought guidance from lawyer friends and all the various online threads including the information here (Newbies etc). I have had a couple of sleepless nights thinking and fretting about it and have finally decided to ask for help here. Please can someone assist me as to the best response and most likely direction this will take so I can be prepared. I have tried to be sucsinct here...

Timeline: 

On 20th November 2023 I recieved a Letter Before Claim from Gladstone Solicitors. No different to what I have seen on these forums. Amount due £170, rising to an estimated £285 if going to court.

I replied on the 18th December 2023, and have proof that they received it on the 20 December 2023. Reply letter attached below....

On the 3rd January 2024 I recieved Subject Access Request letter from them in response to the Data breach accusation. I have not included this letter but it does go on to name UK Search, Paragon CC and Patron Hallow as companies they use to process the information. UK Search "provides tracing services to the firm." From that they gathered my DOB and confirmed name and address and VRN. They state "Legitimate Interest" for reasons of accessing data.

Then on the 5th March 2024 I received a response to my letter. Response below....

They included copies of the PCN dated 1st March 2023, Final Chance Before Action letter dated 19th March 2023, and pictures taken of the vehicle where it was parked and signage.

The PCN relates to a work trip to London where the vehicle was parked on a pavement next to a public road between the hours of 22:00-06:30. It was very dark and no signage was noticed. Businesses were closed. There we lots of cars parked infront and behind. The pictures attached from them were clearly taken with a flash as the street was dark.

I would love to know how to proceed and whether this will go to county court? Do I have enough grounds to dismiss this claim based on the evidence here? Does their letter of 5th March require a response which I can charge them for as the contents of my letter was "noted" and not disputed? Is there a legal time frame for them to respond to me? Or do I just wait for the CCJ appeal letter to come?

Thanks to anyone who can help!

 

GrumpyDil

Wait for the regulars but my initial take is that is a forbidding sign insofar as it says no parking so any claim is likely to fail on the basis that there can't be a contract in this scenario.

Alternatively the signs refer to no parking on roadways/yellow lines/paved/hatched or landscape areas which I would argue does not adequately describe a tarmaced pavement area. 

Fruitcake

You are now in the right place to get the best help there is regarding the unregulated private parking industry.

It appears that you have been "found" as a result of a search, possibly because you didn't receive the initial NTK, or didn't respond to it, or any subsequent reminders. 
The most common reason for not receiving a PCN is an incorrect address on the vehicle V5C. Please check it now to see if it is correct. If not, you need to get the DVLA to change it otherwise you could get a real penalty of up to £1000.

You should also as a matter of urgency, send a rectification notice to the DPO of the PPC instructing them to erase your old data and replace it with your current address for service. This is to prevent a claim deliberately being sent to an old address where you are unlikely to receive it, giving them an easy default judgment.
Make sure you use the word I have highlighted, and include proof of ID/address such as a copy of a bank/card statement or utility bill, or a copy of the V5C if it is correct.

@GrumpyDil is correct. The sign is forbidding and fails to offer anything to a motorist who does park, and is therefore incapable for forming a contract with said motorist. If/when a claim arrives, this will form part of your defence.

Do not send an SAR to UKCPM.

Coupon-mad

Why not just send the response we suggest in the LBC section of the NEWBIES thread?  Start again. Let's get this back on point.  You will see that response includes the address confirmation mentioned by @Fruitcake

That first response wasn't great (sorry!) and reads as if well-meaning solicitor friends don't quite know what they are talking about!

Please don't show us the template LBC response (nor the entire Template Defence, later this year).  We don't need to check our own work!

ManFromWaySouth

Thanks all for the responses. This truly is a support!

@C@Coupon-mad I guess I didn't send the initial template response because I was getting advice from lots of different sources and attempted to make sense of it myself. Had a lot going on personally with family so my head was spinning at the time. 

I acknowledge that might not have been the best approach. So I will send the LBC template response now but to be clear I am still not admitting to being the driver and am I to mention as part of my dispute the poor lighting visible from their own pictures.

@Fr@Fruitcake My address is correct on all forms so not worried about that. Trying to understand what you and @GrumpyDil mean about the forbidding nature of the sign? They don't offer an option to a driver and a contract by nature needs to offer something to all parties????  Do I add this to the LBC template as a dispute or just wait for the CCJ defence later??

And on a side note, are you allowed to stop UK Search from sharing your data in the future???

Thanks

ManFromWaySouth

( @Coupon-mad @Fruitcake see above )

fisherjim

You are where you are, but not a great place to park you would be leaving yourself wide open if it was a public road also, but the signage is as always terrible especially in the dark, and those small signs are the only indication if you can find them that this is a private road. As suggested those signs are forbidding so there was no offer of a contract to park so no service was offered by a third party PPC to charge you for. They claim you owe a debt so have every right to search for your details don't waste time on that, follow the advice by the regulars on here that have seen off hundreds of these greedy claims.

Fruitcake

ManFromWaySouth said:

Thanks all for the responses. This truly is a support!

@Fr@Fruitcake My address is correct on all forms so not worried about that. Trying to understand what you and @GrumpyDil mean about the forbidding nature of the sign? They don't offer an option to a driver and a contract by nature needs to offer something to all parties????  Do I add this to the LBC template as a dispute or just wait for the CCJ defence later??

Thanks

You will be worried if your correct address is not on the claim form and you then later find you have a default CCJ against you. It is not unheard of for a parking company to find someone at a new address, correspond with them there, then deliberately send the claim to an old address knowing it is not likely to be received.

For a contract to be valid, it requires three elements. Offer, consideration, and acceptance. There is no offer on those signs (to motorists who are not authorised), therefore there is nothing for the motorist to consider. Without an offer (of something with value) there is nothing to accept. 

 

Coupon-mad

 So I will send the LBC template response now but to be clear I am still not admitting to being the driver and am I to mention as part of my dispute the poor lighting visible from their own pictures. 

Good.  Do that now and don't delete the VITAL bit in the LBC template response that confirms your correct address for service.

As @Fruitcake rightly cautions, all the time they hold in their databases a choice of 2 addresses, you SHOULD be worried.

ManFromWaySouth

Hi again...

Sending out the LBC letter today and just wanted to check whether what I have written regarding dispute is ok???

".....The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

It is very clear from the information you sent that the pictures were taken with flash and the surroundings are in fact dark and under lit making any signage difficult to see at night. The picture you provided of the sign clearly proves that the terms are forbidding and therefore no offer of a contract to park exists. Therefore no breach or financial penalty can be charged.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such...."

I haven't changed the rest of the LBC template and have confirmed my address as per @Coupon-mad and @Fruitcake Didn't mean to appear nonchalant about the address and wasn't aware the levels they go to to get you! My address is correct on all vehicle documents and I haven lived at the same address for many years. But noted!! Thanks!

Can I ask please....

1. Do I email the LBC response to their email address which I have from the documents as enquiries@gladstonessolicitors? I am reluctant to set up a login on their site!

2. And they "noted" the contents of my email to them without disputing, therefore am I allowed to charge them now an hourly rate???

Thanks!

ManFromWaySouth

"2. And they "noted" the contents of my email to them without disputing, therefore am I allowed to charge them now an hourly rate???"

meant contents of my letter... not email