Simply Business Insurance

barbuda

Hi,
Just a heads up about Simply Business...
I have had Landlords Insurance for several years with them, I specifically opted out of auto renewal, and they confirmed that is on their records.

But....what they are doing now is to send an email reminder 20 days before expiry, the email says that the policy will auto renew unless you phone their office, so they are opting in everyone for auto renewal even if you have previously told them that you don't want it,  ever....so then you need to phone them up, listen to music and cancel the auto renewal again,

Auto renewal is good for the insurance companies but bad for the customer as it prevents comparing other quotes and assumes you will renew regardless of cost.

It is very sneaky and if you miss the reminder email and decide to renew with another company, then you would have 2 insurance policies for the same property, and I would think that as well as doubling the cost of the insurance, both companies would say the other was liable if there was a claim, they certainly wouldn't pay out twice.
Also if you don't realise until after the cooling off period that you have 2 policies then you will definitely be out of pocket.

I have had to reverse the payment at my bank, listen to more music, ring Simply Business,
listen to even more music, and finally make a complaint, none of which would have been needed without the dodgy Simply Business email, so buyer beware!

Cheers

DullGreyGuy

barbuda said:

Auto renewal is good for the insurance companies but bad for the customer as it prevents comparing other quotes and assumes you will renew regardless of cost.

It is very sneaky and if you miss the reminder email and decide to renew with another company, then you would have 2 insurance policies for the same property, and I would think that as well as doubling the cost of the insurance, both companies would say the other was liable if there was a claim, they certainly wouldn't pay out twice.
Also if you don't realise until after the cooling off period that you have 2 policies then you will definitely be out of pocket.

I have had to reverse the payment at my bank, listen to more music, ring Simply Business,
listen to even more music, and finally make a complaint, none of which would have been needed without the dodgy Simply Business email, so buyer beware!

How on earth does it prevent you from comparing other quotes? Love to hear an explanation of that one. 

Unfortunately the majority of people who "miss the reminder" email dont end up with 2 policies but would end up with 0 policies if the policy wasn't on auto renewal. I've never worked on the front line of SME business but did my service in personal lines and have had to deal with customers who've literally lost their whole home to a fire or had a major accident and discovered they forgot their renewal and so had no insurance... tears doesn't come close to the person facing a £100,000 bill just because they missed the reminder so the policy lapsed. 

Whilst you may think you have the perfect memory/system and it will never happen to you many of those that had missed their renewal claimed it was because they were in hospital ill or their parent had died etc, even offered evidence to confirm it wasn't a made up story begging for the policy to be setup retrospectively. But I am sure you'd be able to still shop around for insurance whilst in ICU in a coma etc. 

You should never blindly just renew, you should shop around and having auto renewal on doesn't prevent you from doing that. It is a very good safety net against life and even more so those with an imperfect memory. 

If you have logged it as a fraudulent charge then 1) you wasted your own time doing that, you could have just phoned them to cancel instead 2) you may find your policy is cancelled for non-payment rather than because of your request to cancel it which is declarable for life. 

In most circumstances insurers will void a policy to inception when you show you've accidentally bought a second policy. 

dunstonh

Auto renewal is good for the insurance companies but bad for the customer as it prevents comparing other quotes and assumes you will renew regardless of cost.

Wong on both counts
auto-renewal doesn't stop you comparing.   
And statistically, most people renew, so it creates a simplified path for the majority.

It is very sneaky and if you miss the reminder email and decide to renew with another company, then you would have 2 insurance policies for the same property, and I would think that as well as doubling the cost of the insurance, both companies would say the other was liable if there was a claim, they certainly wouldn't pay out twice.

If the person is unable to handle the administration of an insurance renewal with multiple notications, then there are probably unable to handle any shopping around and you have to question whether they are able to handle being a landlord.

barbuda

Hi, thanks for your helpful comments DullGreyGuy,

"How on earth does it prevent you from comparing other quotes? Love to hear an explanation of that one"

Quite simple really, if your policy auto renews, the insurance companies hope that apathy will come into play.

The insurance company doesn't actually prevent you from comparing quotes, they don't need to, they hope that your apathy will do that for them.


"If you have logged it as a fraudulent charge then 1) you wasted your own time doing that, you could have just phoned them to cancel instead 2) you may find your policy is cancelled for non-payment rather than because of your request to cancel it which is declarable for life"

Not sure where you are going with those statements?

1.Nobody mentioned fraud...

2.Not cancelled the policy...but did complain about the dubious "opting in" to auto renewal that I didn't agree with.

I had previously requested for my policy not to auto renew and it hasn't for several years. The reminder email opted in all clients to auto renewal if they wanted it or not.
I didn't agree because if I hadn't read the email then the policy would have auto renewed without my authority, and for all Simply Business were aware of, I could have already renewed elsewhere, so the insurance would be duplicated.

When I complained, the manager profusely apologised and told me it wouldn't happen again and by the tone of his voice (weary) then I wasn't the only person complaining.

3."declarable for life" sounds like a old Victorian punishment...so I can't help you with that one..


Hi dunstonh,
Thanks for your comments,
 
"auto-renewal doesn't stop you comparing.   
And statistically, most people renew, so it creates a simplified path for the majority"

The insurance company doesn't actually prevent you from comparing quotes, but they hope that your apathy will do that job for them, that is why insurance companies offer auto renewals.
I agree, it is simple to auto renew, that is why it is offered, and if you are one of the statistical majority then it will be a good thing for you to do, so please feel free..
If you are not in the statistical majority (like me) and you have requested your policy to not auto renew, and it hasn't auto renewed for several years, then you may get a little annoyed when you are opted in to auto renewal automatically by a sneaky email. As explained above, if I hadn't read the email then I could have duplicated my policies without knowing.
Apparently that isn't a problem for some people around here, but it is a problem that I would like to avoid.

Hence my complaint and "heads up" for other like minded people.

I will ignore your last paragraph as you are "Wong on both counts" (sic)

Cheers

DullGreyGuy

So you spent time and effort to contact them to cancel the auto renewal... instead you could leave the auto-renewal in place, see if it's the best value or not at renewal. If it is you dont need to do anything, if it isn't you then spend the time and effort to contact them to decline the renewal - still 1 contact and possibly none. It also leaves the safety net in case something goes wrong so you aren't caught without insurance. 

Absolutely insurers like auto renewal because they have a higher retention rate with customer apathy but it's also vastly reduced uninsured drivers so less payments to the MIB so we all benefit from that, insurers and policyholders alike. Dont throw the baby out with the bath water. You approach only increases your risk and increases the effort given if the renewal is the best price its then a second contact to them.

barbuda

Hi DullGreyGuy,

My issue isn't only with having to listen to music whilst waiting for Simply Business to respond, its a lot deeper than that..
When I cancelled auto renewal, I did it for a reason, I didn't want it.
Simply Business then decided to activate auto renewal against my wishes even though I hadn't had it for years.
Now as I see it, if they can do that, then what else can they do without my consent?

Amend the policy details, reduce the cover? who knows?
Its a trust thing, and once Simply Business no longer act on your instructions then a huge red flag has been hoisted.

For all Simply Business knew, I could have sold the property and no longer needed any insurance at all, but they would have still automatically taken money from my bank account for a policy that I neither needed or requested.
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Auto renewal is wrong in so many ways, Ofcom commissioned a consultation regarding auto renewals:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-3/automatically-renewable-contracts

Quote;

"Since they first became a prevalent feature of the residential fixed voice sector in 2008, we have been concerned that Auto Renewal Contracts are damaging to consumers and competition in communications markets. We recognise that ARCs may have benefits for some consumers for example, those who wish to remain with their provider and who value the ability to move into a new minimum contract period unless they opt out. However, we believe these benefits are relatively limited and are outweighed by the costs.

Our research, in particular the econometric analysis that we commissioned on the switching behaviour of BT customers, indicates a clear causal link between ARCs and reduced levels of consumer switching. We believe this effect stems from the opt-out nature of the process for contract renewal and that any example of such a contract is likely to be harmful to consumers and to effective competition".

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After this consultation Ofcom prohibited all auto renewal contracts in order to protect the consumer.

I know Ofcom has nothing to do with Simply Business but the principle of auto renewal is the same in any market it operates in, and it has been found to be damaging to the consumer and competition.

I am in the Ofcom camp and strongly disagree with the auto renewal policy of Simply Business, hence the complaint and heads up for anyone else who may be in the same position.

Cheers

DullGreyGuy

The FCA takes a very different view and agrees it has greatly reduced the number of uninsured drivers etc. They have set some rules around cancellation on an individual policy but certainly aren't going to be banning the practice!

Without question if Simply Business had said it had been turned off but it hadn't then that is an issue, dont think anyone is going to say otherwise hence not worth commenting on. 

If you had sold the property during the policy term you'd have to have told them, its a reasonable assumption that the majority of people are compliant with the terms of their policy/ aren't attempting fraud etc. 

It remains a bad idea and useless thing to cancel auto renewal mid term on the policy but you are entitled to do so and hopefully you won't live to regret the decision as others have. 

barbuda

Hi DullGreyGuy,

Reducing uninsured drivers is a good thing, but with respect this thread is about auto renewing house insurance.

You are right that cancelling an auto renewal instruction mid policy is useless and that everyone is entitled to do it if they wish, but not sure why you think I have done it though...

I have renewed my policy manually, confirmed that it will not auto renew and have received an apology for poor service with a promise that the policy will never auto renew again. Ho hum..

However as a wild guess at about this time next year there is a chance I may be back ;-)

Hopefully others may become aware of the sneaky policy renewal email that Simply Business send out that automatically opts you in for auto renewal (even when I have gone to the trouble of requesting no auto renewal, have done so for several years and on my account it shows "no auto renewal requested")

All of which were blissfully and blatantly ignored by Simply Business..

As you say "Without question if Simply Business had said it had been turned off but it hadn't then that is an issue"

Maybe another case for the FCA then?

Cheers

DullGreyGuy

barbuda said:

Maybe another case for the FCA then?

FCA do not deal with individual customer issues... assuming you fit within the Financial Ombudsman's definition of Small Business then you'd complain to SB first and then escalate to the FOS if you are unhappy with their response. 

The FOS provide data to the FCA on the more problematic firms, any emerging trends etc and the FCA can take enforcement action beyond the simple compensation that the FOS can apply

DullGreyGuy

You should have a look at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6512987/house-fire-found-out-home-insurance-not-autorenewed - have suffered a notable home fire and discovered they missed their renewal because the policy wasn't on auto-renewal. 

You should tell them how lucky they are that their policy wasn't on auto-renewal! 

As previously said... life happens and auto-renewal is a safety net 

The_squirrell

I have a policy on Auto Renewal. A few weeks before renewal, I get an email to tell me that its happening and what the new premium will be. I have a look at others to compare. If it's competitive, I don't have to do anything.....if it's not, then I cancel and go elsewhere.

Personally, I fail to see how this arrangement disadvantages me in any way?