What is the latest state of play on Care Home planning etc?

justwhat

Brie said:

Justwhat - I don't completely understand what you wrote but if you need to be in a care home and you have assets then you will be paying for it.  It's not negotiable.  Only when you get below the threshold (currently about £23500) will the council start funding anything.  This is different than if you need care in your own home in which case your home won't be taken into account but it's likely you will be required to pay for some of your care.  And if you give your cash away then that's definitely deprivation of funds and the council will go after who you gave it to to pay for your care.

You can give assets away early. You can stop accumulating wealth.. You can take on children's debt or  help them with bills.(before a care home is imminent.)

Spend and enjoy during retirement. (couple of cruises lol)

Asset disposal cannot be left until last minute. It is not deprivation of assets if it is done before a care home is needed or expected to be needed. 

Also as an example - I am unsure if a trust deed that was drawn up 5-10 years before a person goes into a care home or is aware it will be needed, would be classed as deprivation of assets.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs40_deprivation_of_assets_in_social_care_fcs.pdf

justwhat

tooldle said:

The snag with your plan @justwhat is knowing when you’ll need a care home? Some folks are really unlucky and their position changes in an instant, no time to see the need on the horizon. Equally, other spend far longer than they should in their own home,  

i agree. However there is no way to know and if you do know then it too late lol

So start planning sooner rather than later lol  Don't sit and do nothing. 

tooldle

justwhat said:

tooldle said:

The snag with your plan @justwhat is knowing when you’ll need a care home? Some folks are really unlucky and their position changes in an instant, no time to see the need on the horizon. Equally, other spend far longer than they should in their own home,  

i agree. However there is no way to know and if you do know then it too late lol

So start planning sooner rather than later lol  Don't sit and do nothing. 

I’m not planning on disposing of my assets to avoid care costs. Unfortunately I’ve seen what dementia can do, supporting a parent through residential and nursing care. Money gives options.

Exodi

justwhat said:

MEM62 said:

Always an interesting position. 

justwhat said:

financial care home planning - i personally don't want any of my hard earned cash being used for it. i have been careful with money and have a large amount of savings. 

So you have accumulated wealth but you do not want to use that to make your twilight years comfortable?  Do you view spending on your personal comfort and well being as a waste of money?  Have you lived the rest of life as a pauper instead of using your money to be comfortable and enjoying it or are you just planning on doing that in old age?   

justwhat said:

Really you want too be in debt or give your cash away before care homes are an issue.

Why would you rather give money away than use it for your own benefit when you really need it to?  This makes no sense.  

justwhat said:

If you have any access to assets councils are taking for care home fees.

No, they are not taking anything.  You are using your assets to pay for your care.  This is not covered by the NHS.  It is only Council funded for those that are not fortunate enough to be able to cover their own costs.  If you extend the logic of manipulating your wealth so that you can have the the state pay for everything why did you work?  Why didn't you remain poor so that you could live on benefits and 'they' didn't take your money for rent, mortgage payments, food and bills over the years.       

The state can look after me. I will spend and use wealth we have accumulate in our old age before we end up in a care home.. However i have no intention of using it for care home fees.

A council care home will do me fine funded by the council the exact same way that its funded for people that do not save. (or that have no assets). 

And this is why we have a social care crisis.

Spivved1987

I think reading the responses we may need to change our wills. In answer to the correspondent who asked why I would want to have the house in trust rather than use it to pay for my care, the answer is that if my wife is still alive then she gets to 'quietly enjoy' (or whatever the legal phrase is) her half of the house until she dies or goes into care herself. If I go into care first, then the house can't be assessed as she is still living in it and the will provision is irrelevant.

I take all the points made about the fairness of paying for your own care if you have the resources. In an ideal world that would be perfectly arguable. The problem is that it is so incredibly expensive, and you're on the hook for the lot until your capital dwindles to nothing. Our society is now regressing to the Victorian situation where your offspring or grandchildren's life changes will be radically different if there is no capital passed down. Sad fact, but there we are.

I have a friend whose father's residential care (early onset dementia) cost the thick end of half a million quid before he died, completely wiping out the inheritance. Luckily my friend (like myself) rode the post-war settlement and had a good job and pension, so it was annoying but didn't really affect his life chances and he had no children. But now the difference between inheriting granny's best crockery or her house could mean the difference between fulfilling a decent life or not.

Spivved1987

justwhat said:

Asset disposal cannot be left until last minute. It is not deprivation of assets if it is done before a care home is needed or expected to be needed. 

Also as an example - I am unsure if a trust deed that was drawn up 5-10 years before a person goes into a care home or is aware it will be needed, would be classed as deprivation of assets.

This is exactly what I'm relying on but as you say (and I alluded to in my initial post) you are "unsure if a trust deed etc" and that was why I asked if there had been any recent case law to make the unsureness a bit less unsure!

Another potential problem is that I think the Will does say something like 'under current legislation not eligible for reckoning in capital assessment for Care Fees' and this might be the clause by which the stupid solicitor may have hung me!

justwhat

Spivved1987 said:

Another potential problem is that I think the Will does say something like 'under current legislation not eligible for reckoning in capital assessment for Care Fees' and this might be the clause by which the stupid solicitor may have hung me!

lol that's not good 

Spivved1987

Exodi said:

The state can look after me. I will spend and use wealth we have accumulate in our old age before we end up in a care home.. However i have no intention of using it for care home fees.

A council care home will do me fine funded by the council the exact same way that its funded for people that do not save. (or that have no assets). 

And this is why we have a social care crisis.

It is one of the reasons we have a social care crisis. Others are available.

"The ones who had the income to save during their working lives, but didn't" argument is very difficult to counter. That, and the lottery of dropping dead suddenly v needing long term residential care, is exactly why a compulsory income-related insurance system is required.

Spivved1987

justwhat said:

Spivved1987 said:

Another potential problem is that I think the Will does say something like 'under current legislation not eligible for reckoning in capital assessment for Care Fees' and this might be the clause by which the stupid solicitor may have hung me!

lol that's not good 

I suppose I have to lol

Spivved1987

 These sort of trusts however have a second, and perhaps more important, function in protecting your share of your home in the event that your spouse remarries.

Hadn't thought of that. That'll teach her to go gallivanting as a Merry Widow!

Here's a sad tale, which is somewhat connected. My friend's mother remarried at the age of 78, and didn't make a will to replace the one which she had made naming my friend and his sister as beneficiaries. She probably didn't realise that Wills fall on remarriage. Upshot: she died a couple of years later and it all went to her new husband, who passed it on to his children from his own previous marriage. My friend and his sister got nothing.