My partner's son - legal arrangements if she dies

TheBanker

Savvy_Sue said:

Let's come straight out and ask, OP, would you step up for this lad? Would he want you to? Because knowing he'd have some stability if the worst happened could go some way towards reassuring him.

You don't need to become a parental figure. It's enough to be a stable presence. Clearly he already feels able to talk to you a bit. You'd both be grieving her loss, you work through it together.

His mum might want to find out if there's a particular reason he's got these worries. Maybe there's someone at school in care, maybe something he's seen or heard. 

Would I step up? Honestly I don't know. I think I would, if it was a choice between that and him going into care. In the short term, I think I'd have to as there's nobody else I can think of who would. Him mum's close friends don't live locally. If I didn't, then it would be a case of hoping that one of the boy's friends' families could take him in.

I do like him, and we get on reasonably well. It's funny because for the first few years we didn't have a lot to do with each other, but over the last year or so we've got a bit closer. It started when I took him to his football match one weekend when his mum wasn't feeling well. Somehow it's now become a routine that I take him most weekends. I like spending time with him, but there's a world of difference between a couple of hours each week and full time responsibility.

As for what's brought this on, I don't know. But it's worrying him, he's told his mum he's worried and he also said something to me. The only thing I can think of is that his mum went into hospital for a minor operation (non-life threatening condition) just after Christmas. It was day surgery and all went well but I know he was worried due to getting messages every five minutes asking if I'd heard anything from the hospital. It didn't help that there were delays so although I was expecting to pick her up mid-afternoon, she wasn't ready until about 6pm. I know this kind of delay is perfectly normal where the NHS is involved, but he was convinced it was because something bad had happened. 

Jude57

TheBanker said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Let's come straight out and ask, OP, would you step up for this lad? Would he want you to? Because knowing he'd have some stability if the worst happened could go some way towards reassuring him.

You don't need to become a parental figure. It's enough to be a stable presence. Clearly he already feels able to talk to you a bit. You'd both be grieving her loss, you work through it together.

His mum might want to find out if there's a particular reason he's got these worries. Maybe there's someone at school in care, maybe something he's seen or heard. 

Would I step up? Honestly I don't know. I think I would, if it was a choice between that and him going into care. In the short term, I think I'd have to as there's nobody else I can think of who would. Him mum's close friends don't live locally. If I didn't, then it would be a case of hoping that one of the boy's friends' families could take him in.

I do like him, and we get on reasonably well. It's funny because for the first few years we didn't have a lot to do with each other, but over the last year or so we've got a bit closer. It started when I took him to his football match one weekend when his mum wasn't feeling well. Somehow it's now become a routine that I take him most weekends. I like spending time with him, but there's a world of difference between a couple of hours each week and full time responsibility.

As for what's brought this on, I don't know. But it's worrying him, he's told his mum he's worried and he also said something to me. The only thing I can think of is that his mum went into hospital for a minor operation (non-life threatening condition) just after Christmas. It was day surgery and all went well but I know he was worried due to getting messages every five minutes asking if I'd heard anything from the hospital. It didn't help that there were delays so although I was expecting to pick her up mid-afternoon, she wasn't ready until about 6pm. I know this kind of delay is perfectly normal where the NHS is involved, but he was convinced it was because something bad had happened. 

That would make him worry, given that he lost his dad so young. I'm assuming there are no grandparents who could take the boy in? Your partner could consider nominating (with their knowledge and consent) joint guardians, perhaps one of her close friends and you? As I understand it, you'd jointly make decisions about education, health (if medical treatment is needed for the lad) and welfare, so jointly deciding where he'd live. At 14 he's clearly not old enough to live alone and even at 18 taking on responsibility for a house while still in education or just starting your working life is a heavy burden. As joint guardians, if you decided to try to keep him in the same area and school to be close to his friends, that would likely mean him living with you which certainly is a great responsibility. Has your partner thought of speaking to the parents of the son's best friends? They might know the lad very well and could be prepared to be joint guardians. Difficult conversations to have but better than doing nothing and hoping for the best.

I agree with those saying that what he really needs is reassurance that, if the worst happened, he'd have loving support from adults who care about him. I'm sure his mum would want that for him and would also understand that no house, no amount of money, ever makes up for the loss of a beloved parent. She really needs to take the steps necessary to protect her son from the potentially ill effects of having to go into the care system.

TheBanker

Jude57 said:

TheBanker said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Let's come straight out and ask, OP, would you step up for this lad? Would he want you to? Because knowing he'd have some stability if the worst happened could go some way towards reassuring him.

You don't need to become a parental figure. It's enough to be a stable presence. Clearly he already feels able to talk to you a bit. You'd both be grieving her loss, you work through it together.

His mum might want to find out if there's a particular reason he's got these worries. Maybe there's someone at school in care, maybe something he's seen or heard. 

Would I step up? Honestly I don't know. I think I would, if it was a choice between that and him going into care. In the short term, I think I'd have to as there's nobody else I can think of who would. Him mum's close friends don't live locally. If I didn't, then it would be a case of hoping that one of the boy's friends' families could take him in.

I do like him, and we get on reasonably well. It's funny because for the first few years we didn't have a lot to do with each other, but over the last year or so we've got a bit closer. It started when I took him to his football match one weekend when his mum wasn't feeling well. Somehow it's now become a routine that I take him most weekends. I like spending time with him, but there's a world of difference between a couple of hours each week and full time responsibility.

As for what's brought this on, I don't know. But it's worrying him, he's told his mum he's worried and he also said something to me. The only thing I can think of is that his mum went into hospital for a minor operation (non-life threatening condition) just after Christmas. It was day surgery and all went well but I know he was worried due to getting messages every five minutes asking if I'd heard anything from the hospital. It didn't help that there were delays so although I was expecting to pick her up mid-afternoon, she wasn't ready until about 6pm. I know this kind of delay is perfectly normal where the NHS is involved, but he was convinced it was because something bad had happened. 

That would make him worry, given that he lost his dad so young. I'm assuming there are no grandparents who could take the boy in? Your partner could consider nominating (with their knowledge and consent) joint guardians, perhaps one of her close friends and you? As I understand it, you'd jointly make decisions about education, health (if medical treatment is needed for the lad) and welfare, so jointly deciding where he'd live. At 14 he's clearly not old enough to live alone and even at 18 taking on responsibility for a house while still in education or just starting your working life is a heavy burden. As joint guardians, if you decided to try to keep him in the same area and school to be close to his friends, that would likely mean him living with you which certainly is a great responsibility. Has your partner thought of speaking to the parents of the son's best friends? They might know the lad very well and could be prepared to be joint guardians. Difficult conversations to have but better than doing nothing and hoping for the best.

I agree with those saying that what he really needs is reassurance that, if the worst happened, he'd have loving support from adults who care about him. I'm sure his mum would want that for him and would also understand that no house, no amount of money, ever makes up for the loss of a beloved parent. She really needs to take the steps necessary to protect her son from the potentially ill effects of having to go into the care system.

There are no grandparents, and both my partner and her late husband were only children so there are no aunts or uncles either. My partner moved to this part of the country when she married her husband, and her close friends are where she used to live, about a 2.5 hour drive away. But even they are less close than they used to be, due to the distance and difficulties my partner has had visiting. 

When her husband died, his parents were still alive and lived locally. They helped with the boy, but they've since both passed away. Her own parents lived where she grew up, but have also both passed. Since then she's managed everything on her own (and frankly I don't know how she did it - I couldn't have).

His best friend's parents might be worth talking to. They took him on holiday to their caravan in the summer, so there's a relationship of sorts there. I know his mum worries him and his friend are not necessarily good influences on each other though, every time he's been in trouble it's involved his friend. I think this is normal (and have the advantage over my partner of having been a teenage boy once!). I vaguely know the dad from football and he seems a decent enough guy. They've got two other younger children though so not sure how practical it would be. 

theoretica

His financial trustees and people he lives with may not need to be the same people. Maybe the family of a friend (not necessarily his very best friend) would be well placed to become his guardians, with inheritance paying his way.  It also doesn't need to be a single solution - I am on a list of several backups in a cousin's will to look out for their children if needed.

It is also worth being clear headed about the probability these arrangements will not be needed - the reassurance to him of having some arrangements named is a very considerable matter to be balanced against any practical imperfections of those arrangements.

TheBanker

theoretica said:

His financial trustees and people he lives with may not need to be the same people. Maybe the family of a friend (not necessarily his very best friend) would be well placed to become his guardians, with inheritance paying his way.  It also doesn't need to be a single solution - I am on a list of several backups in a cousin's will to look out for their children if needed.

It is also worth being clear headed about the probability these arrangements will not be needed - the reassurance to him of having some arrangements named is a very considerable matter to be balanced against any practical imperfections of those arrangements.

I agree the arrangements will probably never be needed. But in his mind, they might be, given what happened to his dad. 

Savvy_Sue

Jude57 and theoretica both make good points. 

When we first made wills, the boys were quite young. We appointed guardians but we never expected them to 'take the boys in', more to make decisions in their best interests. 

At a later stage, I asked a single male friend if he'd take that responsibility. By then they'd have been able to express their own views, as will this lad.

It does sound as if mum's surgery may have rocked him, and it may take time to reassure him. 

If it helps, you sound like a good chap, and in a very good position to be that 'if the worst happens' person for the next fee years. 

elsien

Savvy_Sue said:

Jude57 and theoretica both make good points. 

When we first made wills, the boys were quite young. We appointed guardians but we never expected them to 'take the boys in', more to make decisions in their best interests. 

At a later stage, I asked a single male friend if he'd take that responsibility. By then they'd have been able to express their own views, as will this lad.

It does sound as if mum's surgery may have rocked him, and it may take time to reassure him. 

If it helps, you sound like a good chap, and in a very good position to be that 'if the worst happens' person for the next fee years. 

How does that work if they’re not living with you particularly if they have to go into care because there is no one who is willing or able to take them in? 

In that case, the state would assume parental responsibility and I am unclear where or how a guardian would fit into that? 

Making decisions for a child that is living elsewhere seems difficult. 

Cairnpapple

My spouse and I are guardians for my 12yo nephew in my sister's will, with a similar understanding that he wouldn't necessarily live with us (we live about 3 hours away). In that case, there are multiple people he could potentially live with, but none of those were certain enough at the time of will writing. Sister's partner was quite new and doesn't live with them, friends could move away or become less close. So our job would be to assess the situation at the time, work with nephew to choose who he would want to live with, and sort out the financials so whoever he lives with has suitable resources.

theoretica

elsien said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Jude57 and theoretica both make good points. 

When we first made wills, the boys were quite young. We appointed guardians but we never expected them to 'take the boys in', more to make decisions in their best interests. 

At a later stage, I asked a single male friend if he'd take that responsibility. By then they'd have been able to express their own views, as will this lad.

It does sound as if mum's surgery may have rocked him, and it may take time to reassure him. 

If it helps, you sound like a good chap, and in a very good position to be that 'if the worst happens' person for the next fee years. 

How does that work if they’re not living with you particularly if they have to go into care because there is no one who is willing or able to take them in? 

In that case, the state would assume parental responsibility and I am unclear where or how a guardian would fit into that? 

Making decisions for a child that is living elsewhere seems difficult. 

Not too difficult - something a bit similar happens with boarding schools.

Savvy_Sue

elsien said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Jude57 and theoretica both make good points. 

When we first made wills, the boys were quite young. We appointed guardians but we never expected them to 'take the boys in', more to make decisions in their best interests. 

At a later stage, I asked a single male friend if he'd take that responsibility. By then they'd have been able to express their own views, as will this lad.

It does sound as if mum's surgery may have rocked him, and it may take time to reassure him. 

If it helps, you sound like a good chap, and in a very good position to be that 'if the worst happens' person for the next fee years. 

How does that work if they’re not living with you particularly if they have to go into care because there is no one who is willing or able to take them in? 

In that case, the state would assume parental responsibility and I am unclear where or how a guardian would fit into that? 

Making decisions for a child that is living elsewhere seems difficult. 

I'm rather hoping that if the OP was appointed as guardian, and the worst happens, he'd work out with the lad how to manage life without mum. You can't put down in words what the best thing to do would be, but you can put down who you trust to make those decisions.