Am I entitled to PIP due to not being able to socialize? (I think not, but just checking).

marcia_

Kris35 said:

Well it's strange. I sent the CAB an email on Saturday about my Housing Association putting my rent up and they just called me. No hope there but I'd already had a rethink about that and realize they have to cover their costs too - but she said because I'm on Limited Capability for Work Related Activities, the DWP doesn't give that out easily and I've been on that for years. She said the DWP or the law - I can't remember which she said - have stated that (words to the effect of) I'm probably entitled to PIP as I'm bad enough that I can't work. I'm not sure about this but I'm to contact the DWP and get the form and then call the CAB and they will help me to fill it out.

Muttley, that's the sort of thing I'd say too  .

 Its an indicator that you might put a claim in for pip but both benefits are very different.
 The requirements to meet are not the same. Hence why many people claiming pip work full time. 

Muttleythefrog

Kris35 said:

Well it's strange. I sent the CAB an email on Saturday about my Housing Association putting my rent up and they just called me. No hope there but I'd already had a rethink about that and realize they have to cover their costs too - but she said because I'm on Limited Capability for Work Related Activities, the DWP doesn't give that out easily and I've been on that for years. She said the DWP or the law - I can't remember which she said - have stated that (words to the effect of) I'm probably entitled to PIP as I'm bad enough that I can't work. I'm not sure about this but I'm to contact the DWP and get the form and then call the CAB and they will help me to fill it out.

Muttley, that's the sort of thing I'd say too  .

There'll definitely be some correlation between people classified as having LCWRA and those who get PIP... and indeed the methodology for the WCA and PIP are not dissimilar... however the criteria is significantly different and so you *cannot translate one to the other. I would say use evidence (such as assessment reports - always get a copy ASAP as they can be useful) if it is consistent or supportive of claims for 'the other benefit' as I for one have successfully done. But otherwise you'll have to face them separately.

Pleased CAB seem to be able to give you some assistance... but yes.. contact the DWP.. they'll want some basic details so be prepared... and then they'll send out the 'disability form' which takes some effort to complete and so CAB support could be invaluable. To assist CAB I would try to get together any assessment reports and medical related documents that detail your illnesses, disablements, current treatments including any medications.

(*The government is looking to 'translate one to the other' with future changes that eliminate the Work Capability Assessment and use PIP as a determining factor for classification of work related disablement.. but with potential political changes imminent it's all a bit up in the air as to what will happen)

You might find some of the things I say do resonate with you as I may have some similar issues. I describe myself as a married man living alone with my wife...lol... I said that to someone recently online and they said my English was terrible... I said.. no... I have a personality disorder.

Alice_Holt

LCWRA does not entitle you to PIP, the criteria is different, but is an indication of health problems that might give rise to a successful PIP application. 

It would help to know why you are placed in the LCWRA group (i.e which descriptor applies), as it's worth mentioning on the PIP form.

BTW - I have to disagree with peteuk when he says "you can engage with others (shop assistance for food shopping).." 
This is not the test for the PIP engaging with others activity, but frequently is used by assessors as a reason not to award points. I have seen this nonsense countless times when appealing PIP decisions, the tribunal panels, of course, are well aware of the applicable case law (linked to in this thread) and tend to dismiss such flawed assessment reports as not credible evidence.

It's a real shame that claimants have a long and stressful wait for a tribunal panel to correct this ignorance, and that HMCTS cannot reclaim their costs from the assessing company and the DWP who make these obvious (and frequently repeated) assessment errors  

peteuk

Kris35 said:

Well it's strange. I sent the CAB an email on Saturday about my Housing Association putting my rent up and they just called me. No hope there but I'd already had a rethink about that and realize they have to cover their costs too - but she said because I'm on Limited Capability for Work Related Activities, the DWP doesn't give that out easily and I've been on that for years. She said the DWP or the law - I can't remember which she said - have stated that (words to the effect of) I'm probably entitled to PIP as I'm bad enough that I can't work. I'm not sure about this but I'm to contact the DWP and get the form and then call the CAB and they will help me to fill it out.

Muttley, that's the sort of thing I'd say too  .

Pip has nothing to do with your ability to work, so unless you’re not fully mentioning the effects of your MH (which i understand) my original advice stands.  PIP is a very complex and arduous assessment, it is different to that of LCWRA (although some activities overlap). PIP looks at the effects on your daily life and LCWRA looks at your ability to work.  They dont automatically go hand in hand.

peteuk

Alice_Holt said:

LCWRA does not entitle you to PIP, the criteria is different, but is an indication of health problems that might give rise to a successful PIP application. 

It would help to know why you are placed in the LCWRA group (i.e which descriptor applies), as it's worth mentioning on the PIP form.

BTW - I have to disagree with peteuk when he says "you can engage with others (shop assistance for food shopping).." 
This is not the test for the PIP engaging with others activity, but frequently is used by assessors as a reason not to award points. I have seen this nonsense countless times when appealing PIP decisions, the tribunal panels, of course, are well aware of the applicable case law (linked to in this thread) and tend to dismiss such flawed assessment reports as not credible evidence.

It's a real shame that claimants have a long and stressful wait for a tribunal panel to correct this ignorance, and that HMCTS cannot reclaim their costs from the assessing company and the DWP who make these obvious (and frequently repeated) assessment errors  

I agree but in real life the assessor is taught to ask the question.  If the answer is a stand and chat then its often marked as zero, if the answer is i use self service to avoid staff then it needs further questioning.  There are so many examples of questions PIP assessors use or are taught (formally and informally) to zero score  activities (don't start on driving licences).  That is one that stands out…

Spoonie_Turtle

peteuk said:

Alice_Holt said:

LCWRA does not entitle you to PIP, the criteria is different, but is an indication of health problems that might give rise to a successful PIP application. 

It would help to know why you are placed in the LCWRA group (i.e which descriptor applies), as it's worth mentioning on the PIP form.

BTW - I have to disagree with peteuk when he says "you can engage with others (shop assistance for food shopping).." 
This is not the test for the PIP engaging with others activity, but frequently is used by assessors as a reason not to award points. I have seen this nonsense countless times when appealing PIP decisions, the tribunal panels, of course, are well aware of the applicable case law (linked to in this thread) and tend to dismiss such flawed assessment reports as not credible evidence.

It's a real shame that claimants have a long and stressful wait for a tribunal panel to correct this ignorance, and that HMCTS cannot reclaim their costs from the assessing company and the DWP who make these obvious (and frequently repeated) assessment errors  

I agree but in real life the assessor is taught to ask the question.  If the answer is a stand and chat then its often marked as zero, if the answer is i use self service to avoid staff then it needs further questioning.  There are so many examples of questions PIP assessors use or are taught (formally and informally) to zero score  activities (don't start on driving licences).  That is one that stands out…

The thing is it's good to prepare people for the reality of how assessments may turn out*, but that needs to be balanced with what the law actually says about entitlement to PIP and what the eventual lawful outcome of such situations should be. 

Giving advice about the assessment outcome without the required context (that the assessment outcome is wrong when they use incorrect assumptions and tests) is misleading and may well put people off claiming for what they may potentially be entitled to.

*to be clear, I do appreciate your insight 'behind the curtain', as it were, particularly as it does help us to remember that it's not personal but more a case of the companies fundamentally training assessors wrong.  

peteuk

Thanks Alice…

I think the OP and everyone needs to remember that this is a public forum and as such any comments on the possibility of a PIP claim being successful is dependant on the information that the person posting provides.  Equally that this still does not guarantee a successful PIP claim. 

It would be wonderful if we could say 100% you would get PIP but there are so many variables within the system, that adds to the issues that we all know the PIP assessment has.  

I full understanding of the system is vital, and that includes the pitfalls.  I have seen more than one assessment fail because they can do so many activities or have been assessed as doing activities rightfully or wrongly.  As an assessor you do four or five assessments a day, it is very much fire and forget.  SO unless your in training feedback is rare.  Outcomes are unknown and certainly complaints and tribunal outcomes aren’t (in my minimal experience) passed back.  So the question is does an assessor have the time or knowledge to take into account the law…you would hope? But they are just taking their experience and a set of guidelines and applying them, it is then the DM that makes the decision.  

I hear the request for a caveat on my posts,  but question why…no one else does.  I know I rub people up the wrong way, but the info I provide is either my experience or my opinon.  If anyone else wants to then chip away at this then thats up to them.   

Kris35

Hi all,

I'm about to reapply for PIP and have the dreaded form here. I have a new piece of paper from the one hour phone chat with a psychiatrist. It has my summary at the top which is basically my various traits of personality disorders. I don't want the DWP to read the letter though but wanted to ask if they can get access to it anyway? I granted permission on the phone last week for them to have access to my medical records and I know I can retract that access but don't think doing so will help  me.

Thanks

peteuk

Kris35 said:

Hi all,

I'm about to reapply for PIP and have the dreaded form here. I have a new piece of paper from the one hour phone chat with a psychiatrist. It has my summary at the top which is basically my various traits of personality disorders. I don't want the DWP to read the letter though but wanted to ask if they can get access to it anyway? I granted permission on the phone last week for them to have access to my medical records and I know I can retract that access but don't think doing so will help  me.

Thanks

This may have been better on a new thread, however a PIP advisor does not have access to your medical records, from memory (I did a week of triage PIP assessments) all claims are triaged and a decision made as to the way forward.  On rare occasions the request for more info is made via GP. 
I dont fully understand why you wouldnt want to share such a document, but you have the right not to send it, however by not sending it you may run the risk of not getting either an appropriate assessment and/or an appropriate outcome. 

Muttleythefrog

Kris35 said:

Hi all,

I'm about to reapply for PIP and have the dreaded form here. I have a new piece of paper from the one hour phone chat with a psychiatrist. It has my summary at the top which is basically my various traits of personality disorders. I don't want the DWP to read the letter though but wanted to ask if they can get access to it anyway? I granted permission on the phone last week for them to have access to my medical records and I know I can retract that access but don't think doing so will help  me.

Thanks

It's unlikely they would look/ask GP for information.... largely comes down to you submitting additional evidence including that held on medical records.

I would though say....unless there is anything notably contradictory to your PIP claim I would submit this evidence. Ultimately I understand there can and will be many reasons people don't want the DWP or their contracted HCPs to see reports or information about themselves but it's not a good moment to be shy about such. If the report is a professional psychiatric report/letter detailing you have notable psychiatric problems including perhaps traits of personality disorders then it is potentially useful.... it may not specifically help with any particular PIP activity/descriptor but often the problem MH claimants have is their problems are not considered serious or significant and documents like this might force them to back away from that nonsense. Further.. personality disorders are considered durable conditions that often are lifelong. Obviously without sight of the document and your actual/claimed problems it is hard to be sure it is helpful but unless contradictory I'd put it into evidence.

Ultimately you need to make a case for which descriptors apply by detailing your disablements and difficulties in relation to each relevant of the 12 PIP activities. There's been excellent advice on the thread for that and I stand by the advice already given including that reports like this could be useful were you to get such. Do not assume they (the DWP or assessor) will expend lots of effort trying to find out what disablements you have...you need to impress on them your problems. Hopefully if you need help with the form you get it. Focus on those activities/descriptors... determine which apply to you and make your case in explaining problems. CAB website has some good guidance on that.

As minimum get a copy of your completed form before sending off... ideally you'll do form entries on computer so as to retain the work and possibly make it easier to deal with the form submission.