Am I entitled to PIP due to not being able to socialize? (I think not, but just checking).

Spoonie_Turtle

fatbelly said:

Kris. Try the word help instead of care. Could you envisage that an independent person looking at the way you live would conclude that you need help in communicating and mixing with others? If the answer is yes then there is a case that can be made in a PIP application.

I can't quite agree with this.  For some conditions and difficulties there literally is no form of help that would actually, er, help.  Which is what the highest scoring descriptors are there for.

Your statement, taken at face value, implies that many of us wouldn't qualify for awards at all when actually we do most certainly qualify for PIP.

Kris35

Alice thanks very much for this. No, the migraines happen around 3 or 4 days a week and I'm usually ok ish in the afternoon. I can go about my day feeling rough but I can manage. I'd be very surprised if I was eligible on that point as I can feed myself and do all the usual living things later on in the day without being a danger to myself so I think I can do those things reliably? But, well I didn't know about this:

The Pip info on engaging face to face details case law that states the ability to establish a relationship when engaging with others is more than the mere reciprocation of exchanges - that may be relevant in your case.

I'm off to Google this - thanks a lot.

Kris35

I've done a quick search and this looks like I just might qualify, so thanks Alice, I didn't know about this.

Muttleythefrog

You've received some good advice and guidance..... definitely if you feel you have the energy and space of mind and may be able to get support to deal with the completion of form (the nasty long one which comes out to you to describe your difficulties etc) I'd be tempted to apply. I would probably not apply if having understood the reliability criteria and tallied up what you think you should score across all activities for both mobility and daily living you think you should not qualify for any award... and I say this because applying and facing assessments can be negatively impacting and so one has to weigh up the risks and realistic chance of benefits (literally!). 

First though yes if I were you I may push to try to get a formal diagnosis for mental health problems as this can significantly help in persuading of problems in relation to the activities.... on MSE we cannot really go into diagnosis as that is for medical professionals.. so let me try to be careful here...
... you say "I had a one hour phone consultation with a shrink a couple of months ago and was diagnosed with traits of various personality disorders. As I understand it, it's not what you are diagnosed with, but how it affects you." This is correct... it's how illness, injury or disability affects you in relation to the activities of PIP that is relevant but diagnosis (and treatment) can help significantly in both explaining how you are affected and justifying descriptor choices by anyone involved in the process including a disability assessor. I assume you got no specific personality disorder(s) diagnosis and if so that's a shame... they do seem reluctant to commit to such... but to me there is a glaringly obvious PD that may be found to apply to you as it would crucially surround the lack of apparent emotional transaction in human engagements and your described behaviours. I shalt not name it... not my job. I would caution that of course (and there was a recent thread covering this matter extensively for someone describing themselves as a recluse who only engaged with their parents who they lived with) there is somewhat of a difference between lifestyles people choose and those illness dictates... or at least in assessing disablement that is potentially a feature.

As above... getting an award can be a bit of a battle... especially for initial applications where there is no history of award and assessments. It's hard to know if you would qualify but I think you've been pointed to the activities most likely relevant for points scoring given the 2 areas of illness detailed.

Kris35

Thanks Muttly. I've thought for a long time that I have Avoidant Personality Disorder. My one hour phone diagnosis came back that I have traits of AvPD, along with traits of a few other things. I'm being referred for more tests which I think might help me though. As for the "reliably" descriptor for the migraines, I am going to look into it more (it will take me weeks at least to do this) and get some more advice just incase I'm wrong on that one. Only want what I'm entitled to and I do think that because it's only in the mornings (oh vertigo as well) my headache affects me and for 3-4 days, so 3-4 half days, it's not enough but will see. Totally great advice to get me started so thanks so much everyone.

Alice_Holt

Kris35 said:

Thanks Muttly. I've thought for a long time that I have Avoidant Personality Disorder. My one hour phone diagnosis came back that I have traits of AvPD, along with traits of a few other things. I'm being referred for more tests which I think might help me though. As for the "reliably" descriptor for the migraines, I am going to look into it more (it will take me weeks at least to do this) and get some more advice just incase I'm wrong on that one. Only want what I'm entitled to and I do think that because it's only in the mornings (oh vertigo as well) my headache affects me and for 3-4 days, so 3-4 half days, it's not enough but will see. Totally great advice to get me started so thanks so much everyone.

  PIP has a points based scoring system with (a minimum of) 8 points needed for an award. 
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

It's very likely that to get to 8 points you will need to score on PIP activities other than Social Engagement.  

If you are affected by a condition (preventing you from reliably performing a PIP activity) on the majority of days then you should be assessed as effectively unable to complete the activity. It doesn't matter if it's only part of the day.  I'd suggest keeping a diary over a month or so, to determine if you are affected for more than 50% of days by the migraine.  You can then use this info when completing the form to explain variability (and to give some examples of how you are affected).
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/your-supporting-evidence/

Vertigo could be relevant.  Do you need to sit while showering (a shower seat can be an aid scoring points) ?
Do you need to sit whilst preparing food (or take breaks) ?

Kris35

Hi Alice. This is the confusing bit for me. I cannot do anything when I have my migraines; I just lay in bed until my eyes can focus again which is the afternoon, so I don't need any aids to do anything because I don't try as wouldn't be able to - even with aids. I have to lay in the dark. I've kept a diary for 40 years so have all that as evidence if ever needed. But you say it doesn't matter if it's only part of the day? 

I looked at the first link and see this:

1. the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person. 8 points.

Socializing for any length of time does result in a risk to myself which is why I don't do it. But I can still chat to, say, a shop assistant, as long as we don't become friendly. I avoid after being served by the same person more than twice really, because I can't let anyone know what a stuttering mess I am.

peteuk

Their are two elements to mobility and ten elements to activity, the ten are as follows

• preparing food
• eating and drinking
• managing your treatments
• washing and bathing
• managing toilet needs or incontinence
• dressing and undressing
• communicating verbally 
• reading and understanding written information
• mixing with others
• making decisions about money  

From the little info given, you've no physical conditions (other than migraines) and although you've suggested mental health issues there is no formal diagnosis.    Think about each of the activities listed above and how your symptoms affect these.  You will need to look at each activity and the descriptions

Simply put you can engage with others (shop assistance for food shopping) which from what i can see you can.  Other than making friends how does your social issues affect the other activities. 

with your migraines how many do you get per week/month, how often do you not get dressed etc.  For PIP you need to experience this the majority of the time.  Unless you are experiencing migraines all the time.

Given the info above it is unlikely to affect you so much that it sufficient to successfully claim a PIP payment.  But thats my opinion…

Muttleythefrog

To quickly comment.. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with what Pete says above.

But I would add.... that those with Personality Disorder issues will often have more familiar (diagnosed) MH problems like depression and anxiety (disorders) which can be significant in PIP claims particularly in low scoring across several daily living activities. There is no indication in the thread of such... and the Op presents as somewhat seemingly content with their isolated type existence... that may be accurate.. but mentally unwell people can present in misleading ways and often do fail to appreciate or underplay difficulties they face day to day. A lack of human interaction to get feedback and observation may also aid ignorance or delusion. The relevance of such in this case I do not know and I would hope medical professionals would pick up on anything relevant in assessments. Important would be for the patient to try to be honest even though that may not be their natural persuasion on private thoughts. I don't know if the culture in the NHS has improved or worsened since I fought for diagnosis of MH problems 15 years ago... but on more than one occasion I faced psychiatrists asking why I felt the need for diagnosis of Personality Disorders.... and I can sort of understand why given really they're made up clusters of symptoms/behaviours of little scientific or medical use... so I honestly responded and said I wanted diagnosis to help with benefits...lol. Ultimately the treatment they would present and advice given would not involve or require diagnosis as compared to say depression which would.

Kris35

Well it's strange. I sent the CAB an email on Saturday about my Housing Association putting my rent up and they just called me. No hope there but I'd already had a rethink about that and realize they have to cover their costs too - but she said because I'm on Limited Capability for Work Related Activities, the DWP doesn't give that out easily and I've been on that for years. She said the DWP or the law - I can't remember which she said - have stated that (words to the effect of) I'm probably entitled to PIP as I'm bad enough that I can't work. I'm not sure about this but I'm to contact the DWP and get the form and then call the CAB and they will help me to fill it out.

Muttley, that's the sort of thing I'd say too  .