Gifts Inheritance & payment to beneficiaries

aliby21 · 27 February 2024 at 10:46AM

Tuftywufty said:

Sea_Shell said:

MarzipanCrumble said:

Very early on in the posts I think the OP said that part of the regular remit to the brother was out of surplus income. If you can prove that when it comes to IHT liability, it won't count as a gift.

The downside is you have to prove it from going through the bank account statements, which may be a major, major hassle.

The first post states...

The money is mainly paid from income but together with the private care costs and other household expenses it is whittling away their savings.

So doesn't sound like excess income to me.

We think some of it (maybe a couple of hundred pounds a month) will be from income but the savings is somehow being depleted so its likely that some money paid to brother is from this pot. We don't really know as none of us have access to statements. Brother has seen the balance & said savings are reducing.

If they are using saving they do not have income in excess of their needs. it doesnt matter what 'pot' or account it is coming from.

Tuftywufty · 27 February 2024 at 11:37AM

aliby21 said:

Tuftywufty said:

Sea_Shell said:

MarzipanCrumble said:

Very early on in the posts I think the OP said that part of the regular remit to the brother was out of surplus income. If you can prove that when it comes to IHT liability, it won't count as a gift.

The downside is you have to prove it from going through the bank account statements, which may be a major, major hassle.

The first post states...

The money is mainly paid from income but together with the private care costs and other household expenses it is whittling away their savings.

So doesn't sound like excess income to me.

We think some of it (maybe a couple of hundred pounds a month) will be from income but the savings is somehow being depleted so its likely that some money paid to brother is from this pot. We don't really know as none of us have access to statements. Brother has seen the balance & said savings are reducing.

If they are using saving they do not have income in excess of their needs. it doesnt matter what 'pot' or account it is coming from.

Yes I know. I was just highlighting that I think they can afford some payment to Bro from income but not the amout they are currently paying each month without depleting savings. They can spend their money how they wish of course, no problem.with that. My only concern is how we will account for it without any proper records only statements of the money paid by cheque to Bro each month. Bro doesn't even keep.a record of what he buys for them never mind what the rest of the money is for. Dont think there's any more that me & sister can do atm.

badmemory · 27 February 2024 at 6:38PM

My biggest worry would be that if your brother was not getting their support then how much support would he be able to give them.

Tuftywufty · 27 February 2024 at 7:25PM

badmemory said:

My biggest worry would be that if your brother was not getting their support then how much support would he be able to give them.

I don't think it would really make any difference as the only element that he gives that isn't already covered off by paid carers is the pop in checking visits......these in the themselves are very important in order to pick up any problems and also for social support but they don't require finance. There are very occasional appointments to get them to so maybe money for car expense.

nnnnigel · 19 June 2024 at 2:45PM

I have handled 4 estates as executor in recent years, some more complex than others. In two cases (second deaths of couples), the executors were me and my brother, but I employed the services of a solicitor to handle certain aspects of the estate administration. These aspects were:

To complete the Inheritance Tax forms
To apply to the various financial institutions, gather the money and hold it in their client account until the estate was finalised - and then to distribute the proceeds to each beneficiary
To prepare the final estate accounts

Whilst of course this incurred costs (around £4k for one estate 5 years ago), and my brother and I remained legally responsible for the estate administration, we decided it was well worth the cost in terms of getting the IHT forms completed correctly, gathering the money from multiple sources and holding it without me having to open an executor's account with my bank, and preparing the final estate accounts. As I'm sure you are aware, there is lots to do when someone dies other than dealing with IHT etc - for example, dealing with pensions, state benefits, utility companies, other standing orders/direct debits, vehicles, valuers and estate agents re house sale - plus of course, the funeral arrangements etc.

The solicitor you appoint can also advise you what to do regarding the allocation of money given to your brother as gifts or other, and provide reassurance that you are going about your executor role in the right way. Given the circumstances you have outlined, I would suggest that the most important action you can take now is to ensure that all bank statements are retained (for the last 7 years) - to save you having to apply to the bank for them later - if possible, annotated with which cheques were payments to your brother.

Other than that I would not get too anxious about things at the moment - you have tried your best to put things on a better footing, but to no avail. Think of it like this - if there were lump sum payments on the bank statements identified only by a cheque number, and you didn't know what they were for, what would you do? If you appoint a solicitor you would ask them what to do next which might be to obtain copies of the cheques from the bank and do your best to identify if they were gifts or not, then document your actions and advise the solicitor what you have discovered. This is effectively the position you are in. It can all be unravelled when the time arises, if you seek guidance.

My final piece of advice is to document everything you do when acting as executor (I used a simple Excel spreadsheet) - with the date, action taken, and any money involved eg payment of funeral expenses, payment of final utility bills, receipt of sundry amounts from cancelled subscriptions, insurance policies etc. This helped me keep track of everything as I went along.

Sorry to waffle on.....in summary, don't worry too much at this stage. Take guidance when the time comes. Document everything.