Running power to shed

moneysaver1978

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Thanks for the all replies

mexican_dave said:

doesn't need digging: an overhead cable on a support wire. 

I did wonder about this but I think I'd feel better if it was in the ground, can't blow away in the ground! 

Eldi_Dos said:

small generator suit your needs.

I don't really fancy going down the road of generators, it would only take a day to get the donkey work for the cable sorted and the electrician is needed for a few other small jobs anyway. 

CliveOfIndia said:But if you're just wanting to use a power tool on the very odd occasion then it'd be far cheaper to just use an ordinary extension lead.

That's what I'm doing at the moment but it's a bind to keep reeling in and out, especially when it's raining which seems to be most of the time. 

moneysaver1978 said:

Just curious why do you need power in the shed?

Gotten to the point the house is nice enough to not want dust and mess everywhere, shed probably under sells it a bit, it's a fair sized out building with a decent work bench. 

FreeBear said:

A minimum of 450mm is generally regarded as "best practice", and it needs to be SWA cable. I'd suggest putting it in conduit so that it can be replaced/upgraded should the need every arise.

Thanks @FreeBear

When you say conduit I assume you mean for the part in the ground so the cable can just be pulled out and threaded back through without digging again if ever needed, something like this?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/deta-corrugated-conduit-20mm-x-10m-black/234PV

In terms of cable Screwfix has this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-6943x-black-3-core-2-5mm-armoured-cable-25m-coil/38769

Tools have been working fine of normal plugs running of the usual 2.5mm twin and earth so I assume the 2.5mm SWA is sufficient, 6mm seems overkill for a few standard power tools? I assume the 3 core is suitable for connecting at both ends?

I don't really fancy any conduit or boxing running on the outside of the house, is it safe to simply pin to the wall just under the soffit? 

Many thanks again  

Ah, my apologies, a proper workshop When I read "shed" I was thinking a small one like mine for storing garden tools lol!

I know of someone who has a power going to his workshop from the kitchen and the cable was fixed along the fence (SWA cable and covered with a galvanised steel channel for extra protection. The cable is behind the bushes, flower bed so you don't see it. That was a few years ago though so regulations might have changed.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

FreeBear said:

I've used some corrugated conduit in the past for data cables - It is a pig to pull cable through as stuff gets snagged on the ridges.. 20mm would be too small for SWA. I'd go for something like this - https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-solvent-weld-waste-pipe-black-40mm-x-3m/23406 - Use solvent weld connectors where needed, and just use the pipe for the below ground run. If you think 6mm² is too much, drop down to 4mm² and you'll still be able to use the bigger toys tools. I have a chop saw that will trip a 16A MCB (which is the limit for 2.5mm²)...

Again thank you very much  

I see what you mean about it getting snagged and yes 4mm seems sensible (I didn't see that and thought it jumped from 2.5 to 6), a quick Google suggested the angle grinder might pull the most power at a possible 2500 watts, I've also got a chop saw and thickness planer, the rest are light weight sanders and such. I guess 6mm would future proof but other than a small table saw I can't think of anything else I would a buy really.  

Eldi_Dos said:

If turning the outbuilding into a workshop look into ABB industrial range of sockets and plugs. These are robust  and easy to handle if your hands are a bit mucky and will last better if outbuilding is unheated.

This is where we go way beyond my knowledge, how do you plug a tool with a standard 3 pin plug into one of those sockets (or am I looking at the wrong thing)?

moneysaver1978 said:

Ah, my apologies, a proper workshop When I read "shed" I was thinking a small one like mine for storing garden tools lol!

I know of someone who has a power going to his workshop from the kitchen and the cable was fixed along the fence (SWA cable and covered with a galvanised steel channel for extra protection. The cable is behind the bushes, flower bed so you don't see it. That was a few years ago though so regulations might have changed.

I wouldn't go that far! but it's good enough for tinkering in.  

I'm happy doing a bit of digging for the run from house to the shed I'd just rather avoid taking the whole path up that runs along the front of the house, we've still got one small part of the path to relay at the shed end which has to be soon as there's water pooling by the corner of the house when the rain is heavy so would be ideal to get the cable in under that section of path at the same time.

Eldi_Dos

If you do specify the industrial type sockets you just change the plugs on your tools to match, only a few pounds per plug.
Has the disadvantage of not being able to use tool in the house but I think worth doing if you are mainly using your tools in outbuilding and on the workbench.

If you are wanting to finish the path before moving on to laying supply to outbuilding, lay a duct with suitable bend under path and pre rope it,you will then be able to pick it up when installing power supply. Check the required depth before doing this.

FreeBear

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

FreeBear said:

I've used some corrugated conduit in the past for data cables - It is a pig to pull cable through as stuff gets snagged on the ridges.. 20mm would be too small for SWA. I'd go for something like this - https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-solvent-weld-waste-pipe-black-40mm-x-3m/23406 - Use solvent weld connectors where needed, and just use the pipe for the below ground run. If you think 6mm² is too much, drop down to 4mm² and you'll still be able to use the bigger toys tools. I have a chop saw that will trip a 16A MCB (which is the limit for 2.5mm²)...

I see what you mean about it getting snagged and yes 4mm seems sensible (I didn't see that and thought it jumped from 2.5 to 6), a quick Google suggested the angle grinder might pull the most power at a possible 2500 watts, I've also got a chop saw and thickness planer, the rest are light weight sanders and such. I guess 6mm would future proof but other than a small table saw I can't think of anything else I would a buy really.

Heavy duty dust extractor to replace the small one you are currently using - You do have some form of dust extraction ????

I have an old Vax that I use with a table saw & router bench - Really helps to reduce the amount of dust in the air. Could do with something a bit better, but funds & space don't currently allow for the expense.

Should you take up wood turning, you'll appreciate the ability to draw extra power - Have my (metal) workshop on a 32A breaker, and can still trip the darned thing from time to time.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

No dust extraction yet, because of the extension lead issue I only tinker when it's not raining and if it's not raining I might as well be outside, we've got a heavy duty garden table I built which now sits by the shed and I just wear proper mask.

I've seen you can buy vacuum units for attaching to the tools, some run of batteries so I assume they aren't too power heavy. 

Wood turning looks a bit scary to be honest, then again I would have probably said the same about chainsaws and angle grinders 10 years ago. 

Having a quick search there's a few places selling the cable cut to length which might save a few quid over getting a 50m reel from Screwfix to justify (price wise) upgrading to 6mm. 

FreeBear

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said: Having a quick search there's a few places selling the cable cut to length which might save a few quid over getting a 50m reel from Screwfix to justify (price wise) upgrading to 6mm.

Somewhere like City Electrical will do cut lengths that work out a few pennies per metre cheaper than Screwfix - They may have a branch close to you, if not, free delivery over £50. I've used them in the past for some Belden cable and found the service to be adequate.

Oh, and don't forget to purchase a pair of outdoor grade SWA glands at the same time.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

FreeBear said:
Somewhere like City Electrical will do cut lengths that work out a few pennies per metre cheaper than Screwfix - They may have a branch close to you, if not, free delivery over £50. I've used them in the past for some Belden cable and found the service to be adequate.

Oh, and don't forget to purchase a pair of outdoor grade SWA glands at the same time.

Thanks again, very much appreciated.  

mexican_dave

Eldi_Dos said:

If turning the outbuilding into a workshop look into ABB industrial range of sockets and plugs. These are robust  and easy to handle if your hands are a bit mucky and will last better if outbuilding is unheated.

Sockets and switches in the workshop could be simple "metalclad" from any of the big brands: MK, Volex; Crabtree, etc.
I am not sure the Electric Regs allow you to bury a plastic conduit to carry an electric cable, reckon it has to be "armoured cable". Can any Forumite assist with that? As this is a substantial workshop, and the electrics will be on a "spur" from the house, I would go for 6mm (sq mm) conductors in the cable as this would enable more than one 13amp socket ( that's all you could rightly expect from a single 2.5 T&E).

FreeBear

mexican_dave said: I am not sure the Electric Regs allow you to bury a plastic conduit to carry an electric cable, reckon it has to be "armoured cable".

Yes, it needs to be armoured cable - Putting it in conduit underground provides a little bit more protection. But the main reason for doing so, is it is much easier to replace/upgrade should the need arise. And if the OP finds that there is a need for CAT5/6 or telephone out in the workshop, conduit is already in place. OK, one should not run data & power in close proximity if it can be avoided...

Section62

mexican_dave said:

Eldi_Dos said:

If turning the outbuilding into a workshop look into ABB industrial range of sockets and plugs. These are robust  and easy to handle if your hands are a bit mucky and will last better if outbuilding is unheated.

Sockets and switches in the workshop could be simple "metalclad" from any of the big brands: MK, Volex; Crabtree, etc.
I am not sure the Electric Regs allow you to bury a plastic conduit to carry an electric cable, reckon it has to be "armoured cable". Can any Forumite assist with that? As this is a substantial workshop, and the electrics will be on a "spur" from the house, I would go for 6mm (sq mm) conductors in the cable as this would enable more than one 13amp socket ( that's all you could rightly expect from a single 2.5 T&E).

If you are anticipating a load which would require 6mm cable then it shouldn't be wired as a "spur".

It should be installed as a separate radial circuit from the consumer unit.

As FreeBear suggests, SWA should be used underground (and also where the cable may be vulnerable to physical damage).  As far as I know there is nothing in the wiring regulations that prohibits the use of SWA in a non-conductive ducting. But the OP's electrician should be asked to confirm what is appropriate.