My brand new car is faulty

oldagetraveller1

Toyota Hybrids do have problems with the 12v auxiliary battery if the vehicle is not driven often enough to put a charge into the traction battery.

One theory is the poor quality batteries they are using in some models. Many owners are having to use a battery maintainer.

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/205939-that-12v-battery-again/

  

Langtang

RogerPensionGuy said:

A quick Internet search indeed shows issue with the car in question. 

My experience from a few Honda owners is getting problems fixed in the UK is hassle, however a couple of friends did get nice long-term curtsey cars and were happy putting milage on them while it took absolutely ages to fix the issues. 

I personally hate going to garages to get stuff fixed especially if garages really don't want to be super helpful.

If people ask me about cars and they don't want issues, I tell them to research most reliable cars, some brands just sear at the top, look at the price of after new warranties, in my opinion, cheaper warranties probably mean less hassle. 

I've got a friend with a Vauxhall Corsa petrol, not very old, garages say they cannot establish completely exactly why battery drains, so loads of hassle, owner paid for biggest best battery possible plus a jump start battery contraption in the boot and advised to run engine at least 10 mins every 3 or 4 days to hopefully reduce the times jump staring is required. Poor service in my opinion, but people accept poor service as they don't wish to possible upset people. 

Over the years, Toyota does appear to cause owners little issues, just look on TV at many places around the world with various dynamic issues, Toyotas do appear very often, I think the UN often pick Toyota. 

Years ago I worked for an outfit in a desert location, we used mostly Toyotas and a uk 4x4 vehicle manufacturer vehicles, when vehicle choices were allowed, the Toyotas were always picked in preference to the UK brand and unfortunately not much has changed apart from nowadays, not only is the UK brand less reliable, they can be stolen real easily, but hey, some people like these UK brands, even the PHEVs with battery charging issues.
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https://www.driversadvice.com/honda-cr-v-hybrid-problems/
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https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/2022-crv-hybrid-battery-is-dead-after-700-miles.225227/
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https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/192601/honda-hrv-1-5-ehev--
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Thanks very much for your reply, those articles are very interesting. Although those problems you highlighted are from the older mk 5 model, it is interesting to know that there are indeed problems with 12v batteries in hybrid cars and perhaps Honda's problems have carried over. The new mk6 crv hybrid model, the one i have, was only released in Sept 23.

Whilst my car was in the garage, I purchased a small Li-ion jump starter from a local store, just to keep in the boot "in case"

Langtang

oldagetraveller1 said:

Toyota Hybrids do have problems with the 12v auxiliary battery if the vehicle is not driven often enough to put a charge into the traction battery.

One theory is the poor quality batteries they are using in some models. Many owners are having to use a battery maintainer.

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/205939-that-12v-battery-again/

  

Thanks for your reply. Someone else mentioned a battery conditioner. Is that the same as a maintainer?

Grumpy_chap

Langtang said:

12v batteries in hybrid cars 

It can sometimes be a contributory factor that the 12V battery in hybrid cars tends to be of a lower capacity than the 12V battery in an equivalent plain ICE.  Consequently, even a good battery, can support residual loads for less time.

born_again

Does this car have a traditional 12V battery or is it one that has a inbuilt lithium battery & as such a 12V reset button?

Langtang

born_again said:

Does this car have a traditional 12V battery or is it one that has a inbuilt lithium battery & as such a 12V reset button?

It has a traditional 12v battery. 

oldagetraveller1

Langtang said:

oldagetraveller1 said:

Toyota Hybrids do have problems with the 12v auxiliary battery if the vehicle is not driven often enough to put a charge into the traction battery.

One theory is the poor quality batteries they are using in some models. Many owners are having to use a battery maintainer.

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/205939-that-12v-battery-again/

  

Thanks for your reply. Someone else mentioned a battery conditioner. Is that the same as a maintainer?

Yes, more or less. Sometimes referred to as "smart" chargers.I use both a CTEK 5 Amp charger (about £70) and a Maypole 4 Amp charger (about £25). Don't let the cheaper price put you off, the Maypole charger is in constant use on my Classic's 12v starter battery and has been for a few years now.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maypole-7423A-Battery-Charger-Electronic/dp/B009A83P1E/ref=sr_1_5?crid=28CHEI0U0N58K&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2I7QU0l60DInAeOs9Odo2p9ygNoK7z6uutDrv2plh2XtvAK8_v6sQQ7tojoeu9igx5PAKTIFq08_Ao88WtqmpjnRSRsT2_UsnJ1MjGmhkvPlbOU4U-OxW9sr_dR3Rd2GQqov8RCWY9mDFf7jD_rii39DuekyxeMnah-MTWzUvHEnE4MOa0bS7Vq5f8R4ZQfukrywHfcg0K0zqhrvco2iu_wJAb2GG2ohYn0GNMIQFwVndchEICmhEMM2krsYaJYZRRH8FQLfVS0vQL82r2ROAPBQTHE3UOOVPfeIU1MWZSw.OjLBdVR9JZt664Hn1oChKEthbsy9EnVcU2XFZtxg6qY&dib_tag=se&keywords=maypole+battery+charger+car+12v&qid=1708267703&quartzVehicle=29-10519&replacementKeywords=maypole+battery+car+12v&sprefix=maypole+battery+charger,aps,104&sr=8-5

Murphybear

Langtang said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

A quick Internet search indeed shows issue with the car in question. 

My experience from a few Honda owners is getting problems fixed in the UK is hassle, however a couple of friends did get nice long-term curtsey cars and were happy putting milage on them while it took absolutely ages to fix the issues. 

I personally hate going to garages to get stuff fixed especially if garages really don't want to be super helpful.

If people ask me about cars and they don't want issues, I tell them to research most reliable cars, some brands just sear at the top, look at the price of after new warranties, in my opinion, cheaper warranties probably mean less hassle. 

I've got a friend with a Vauxhall Corsa petrol, not very old, garages say they cannot establish completely exactly why battery drains, so loads of hassle, owner paid for biggest best battery possible plus a jump start battery contraption in the boot and advised to run engine at least 10 mins every 3 or 4 days to hopefully reduce the times jump staring is required. Poor service in my opinion, but people accept poor service as they don't wish to possible upset people. 

Over the years, Toyota does appear to cause owners little issues, just look on TV at many places around the world with various dynamic issues, Toyotas do appear very often, I think the UN often pick Toyota. 

Years ago I worked for an outfit in a desert location, we used mostly Toyotas and a uk 4x4 vehicle manufacturer vehicles, when vehicle choices were allowed, the Toyotas were always picked in preference to the UK brand and unfortunately not much has changed apart from nowadays, not only is the UK brand less reliable, they can be stolen real easily, but hey, some people like these UK brands, even the PHEVs with battery charging issues.
.
☆☆☆
https://www.driversadvice.com/honda-cr-v-hybrid-problems/
☆☆☆

https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/2022-crv-hybrid-battery-is-dead-after-700-miles.225227/
☆☆☆
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/192601/honda-hrv-1-5-ehev--
☆☆☆

Thanks very much for your reply, those articles are very interesting. Although those problems you highlighted are from the older mk 5 model, it is interesting to know that there are indeed problems with 12v batteries in hybrid cars and perhaps Honda's problems have carried over. The new mk6 crv hybrid model, the one i have, was only released in Sept 23.

Whilst my car was in the garage, I purchased a small Li-ion jump starter from a local store, just to keep in the boot "in case"

The reliability charts consistently place Lexus/Toyota/Honda as the 3 most reliable cars.  We have an old Lexus and a 6 year old Toyota.  The only time they are ever in the garage is for a service/MOT.  

Langtang

As an update to this thread. 

My car is still in the garage, 6 months now.

The good news is that the dealer has agreed to replace my car with a new one. 

The bad news is, since my car is on Honda finance, they have to investigate the rejection of my car and come back with findings. They can take up to 8 weeks to do so (they've had 5 already - I don't know what the hold up is, as the dealer has offered the new car, so nothing to investigate imo)

It's been a long road, but we seem to be nearing the end..... famous last words. 

Langtang

Just a final update to this thread.

It is now November 21st, and I received a full refund from Honda this morning - some £30.5k plus change. This was the complete amount I have paid to them since Sept 2023 - deposit, lump sum interim payment and all my monthly payments including interest paid.

The FOS were involved in the end but Honda settled just before the FOS made a ruling and the FOS encouraged me to accept the Honda offer, as it was more than they would have been recommending I get (Honda paid my monthly payments for the 3 months that I actually could drive the car (Sept, Oct, Nov 2023) which the FOS thought was good.

However please be aware if paying cash for things when buying a new car on finance.

I decided to take the extended warranty, 5 year service plan and 2 sets of mats OFF my finance agreement and pay for them in cash. This was done because I didn't want to add 4 years interest onto them, making them not such a good value for money purchase.

The dealer is being stubborn and not refunding me for these items - partly because, they say, they have given me a courtesy car for 11 months, they had to repay Honda full price for my car, now a year and a bit old, and they still have a car that isn't fixed and, therefor, can't sell!

None of the above is due to me - they've taken 11 months to NOT fix my car. What was the alternative to me getting a courtesy car, bill them for taxis every month?

I think I am right in holding out for this to be reimbursed. Thoughts?

The "courtesy" car goes back tomorrow morning..... sniff....