Update on dispute over jointly inherited house, and more questions

doodling

Hi,

Until someone has applied for Letters of Administration (with will attached) then no-one can force anyone to do anything.  I recommend you get started on that because if your brother does it instead then life will get even more difficult.

I think you should be able to insure the house without getting letters of administration but I would be using a broker and make sure they understand the situation so as to ensure that you are covered.

Once you have letters of administration then you can start to sort out what to do with the house.  It sounds like the house will eventually be sold but it may be a long and tortuous path to get there - you will need legal advice for that.

Gavin83

DepositSaver said:

To add to the above, if I did decide to just let him stay and put the house in joint names, I can't actually afford the costs of owning half a house. I can't afford to be paying bills repair and maintenance of my own home, and in addition repairs and maintenance for the house my brother lives in. 

Why do you need to pay half the costs of repairs and maintenance? You don't live there, a poorly maintained house doesn't really affect you. Just let it get run down. The less comfortable the house is to live in the more likely your brother is to do something.

The way I see it you've got 3 options:

1) Bribe him. Explain that he'll ultimately have more and more issues and he can't afford to maintain the house nor pay the bills so it would be better for him to move somewhere smaller. In terms of the bribe offer him a bigger cut of the house proceeds to agree to the sale.

2) Go legal and look to force the sale. Will ultimately lead to less money for both of you but from your perspective less of something is better than nothing.

3) Do nothing. It sounds like your brother will ultimately make his situation more and more difficult without any involvement from you. If he asks you for money (which he most certainly will) then say no. If he asks you to pay for essential repairs to the house then say no. If he says the electric has been cut off and he needs the money to get it reinstated then say no. It'll get to the point he's effectively living in a squat and his life will be miserable. At that point he might be a bit more willing to discuss this with you and agree to sell the house.

Ultimately it's your choice. You'll need to be resilient though and not bow to pressure. If he gets threatening call the police.

RAS

We certainly don't need letters of administration. And since the second executor resigned there is no way of an appointing a neutral administrator who has any power to do anything about your brother because your brother can simply instruct them to cease.

First you need to find out whether it is even possible for you to get letters of administration with will? Or has your brother already applied or been granted?

Because as administrator you can at least engage legal advice at the estate's cost to sort out the situation with your brother.

If his solicitor, who seems to have an understanding of the processes so far, has advised your brother further, he could have already got letters of administration himself. Which leaves you in a much weaker situation. In fact is a worse situation than if nothing had happened.

You have a choice, walk away and accept your and yours might get the scraps if your brother dies first or actively engage like yesterday to start to protect your interests.

Go to the government gov.uk probate registry and check if admin has been granted. Checking the index is free and you can download any grant for £1.50. If admin has not yet been granted, you might be able to find out if your brother or his solicitor has already applied. If he has you need a caveat, urgently.

Your brother claims he can't cope? Well he's doing an extremely good job of getting better advice than you and managing to release assets to alleviate his financial stresses. 

While you are about it, I'd suggest that you double check the deeds at the Land Registry, again use the gov.uk site at the cost of £3. If the house is registered in dad's name, then you need to sign up for alerts. Your brother won't know you've done that.

Savvy_Sue

DepositSaver said:

I'm so sorry, I managed to miss the vital information that one of the executors of the will is deceased, and the other renounced after my brother harassed them right after my dad died about sorting the will ASAP, to the point it was making them ill. So we have no executor so will need someone to apply for letters of administration. It would be so much easier if we had an independent executor. 

Ah yes, that might have been somewhere on the earlier thread, but it definitely makes a difference, and it is a great shame you no longer have an independent executor. 

No solicitor will accept conflicting instructions: it's madness. 

Gavin83 said:

DepositSaver said:

To add to the above, if I did decide to just let him stay and put the house in joint names, I can't actually afford the costs of owning half a house. I can't afford to be paying bills repair and maintenance of my own home, and in addition repairs and maintenance for the house my brother lives in. 

Why do you need to pay half the costs of repairs and maintenance? You don't live there, a poorly maintained house doesn't really affect you. Just let it get run down. The less comfortable the house is to live in the more likely your brother is to do something.

The way I see it you've got 3 options:

1) Bribe him. Explain that he'll ultimately have more and more issues and he can't afford to maintain the house nor pay the bills so it would be better for him to move somewhere smaller. In terms of the bribe offer him a bigger cut of the house proceeds to agree to the sale.

2) Go legal and look to force the sale. Will ultimately lead to less money for both of you but from your perspective less of something is better than nothing.

3) Do nothing. It sounds like your brother will ultimately make his situation more and more difficult without any involvement from you. If he asks you for money (which he most certainly will) then say no. If he asks you to pay for essential repairs to the house then say no. If he says the electric has been cut off and he needs the money to get it reinstated then say no. It'll get to the point he's effectively living in a squat and his life will be miserable. At that point he might be a bit more willing to discuss this with you and agree to sell the house.

Ultimately it's your choice. You'll need to be resilient though and not bow to pressure. If he gets threatening call the police.

I think that sums it up. Personally I'd start with bribery, and put everything in writing ... 

sevenhills

Gavin83 said:

Why do you need to pay half the costs of repairs and maintenance? You don't live there, a poorly maintained house doesn't really affect you. Just let it get run down. The less comfortable the house is to live in the more likely your brother is to do something.

If the house is not in a habitable state, that would surely help to force its sale.

DepositSaver

Thank you all for your comments so far, some useful advice and suggestions, and food for thought. I will go through and answer questions and thoughts shortly.

DepositSaver

Sea_Shell said:

DepositSaver said:

I'm so sorry, I managed to miss the vital information that one of the executors of the will is deceased, and the other renounced after my brother harassed them right after my dad died about sorting the will ASAP, to the point it was making them ill. So we have no executor so will need someone to apply for letters of administration. It would be so much easier if we had an independent executor. 

Sorry to hear what you are going through, and there aren't any easy solutions to this.    You can't afford to* write off your inheritance and he can't afford to live there, and is refusing to sell.   My sympathies.

On the insurance front, I would have thought that someone somewhere WILL insure it, but at a price.  Have you tried asking a broker?    When does it expire?  How long have you got?

However, at the moment without an executor (or administrator), I don't know who is able to arrange said insurance.   You both have an insurable interest in it as it stands, but are you yet (automatically) the legal owners?  

AIUI, once someone applies to be the executor (administrator) then it would become their DUTY to ensure that the property IS insured, so this will need to be sorted at a priority, once someone steps up.

As you have already accessed some of the estate funds, and distributed them, will this be deemed to have "intermeddled" already, and so do you need to apply and carry on now.


* ETA - At the end of the day, you might have to.  For your own health and sanity.   What if Dad had left everything to the cats home?   You'd have to "make do" with what you have of your own.   It's not nice, but the battle might be too much.   Maybe walking away, it an option.

I think you're right that someone somewhere will probably insure it. I haven't done much to try to find someone and haven't tried a broker. I left it to my brother hoping that when he couldn't easily find an insurer that might prompt him to discuss selling, but he called some insurers, was told they won't insure while the house is in my dad's name, and he contacted me in a panic asking what we do now. The current insurer agreed to insure it for one more year so it expires in December so we do have some time. 

You make a good point about perhaps at some point having to write off the inheritance, to save my sanity. I have a full time job and live a long way away from my brother, and I don't know whether I will have the time and energy to spare trying to sort it out if it ends up in a big battle. 

DepositSaver

Dymphna60 said:

You have my sympathy OP.
I find myself in a similar situation having been effectively left my brother in my father’s will ! 

I think variants of this happen all the time . 

A very unfair situation.

Brother lived with our dad almost all his life .Never had to act like an adult spoke and behaved to father like a stroppy entitled teenager would . 

Reading back through your posts I can see your frustrations and how your sympathy erodes . Because it does . 

Sometimes I have to remind my self that I didn’t create some huge childhood trauma for my brother as I am sure you didn’t to yours . 

Any difficulties he has are not your fault .He is not a child you brought up or a spouse you chose . 

Although it is 10 years since my father died there are circumstances that only now are we dealing with probate . 

I anticipate a struggle when I say no not owing a house with him . 

Can I ask  where you read that a joint sibling beneficiary
 can not usually be made to sell if they are living in the property?! 

Don’t like the sound of that . 

Also I don’t understand what you
have engaged the solicitor for ? 

Not to obtain letters of administration? 

Would a larger percentage of the house sale no longer buy your brother somewhere to live because the other money /assets in the estate have now been spent ? As earlier you thought he could buy somewhere if you gave him more than 50 % . 

This is the tack I am going to
try 60/40 or 70/30 to get him out the house. 

All the best going forward. 

I'm sorry that you're in a similar situation, it's tough isn't it? 
It's good to be reminded that any difficulties he has aren't my fault and that he's not my child or spouse and I am not responsible for him. 

It was this website https://www.readysteadysell.co.uk/inherited-property-can-siblings-force-a-sale/#:~:text=However importantly, legally no one,a right to live there. where I saw mention that a court may not grant an order for sale if a beneficiary is living in the house, though I'm not sure how accurate that is. 

I am not sure that a larger percentage of the house proceeds would buy him a house, as the money is gone and that would have paid the legal expenses. Those would now need to come out of the proceeds of the sale. That said, I did suggest early on that perhaps he could have a larger share of the proceeds, and he was adamant he did not want to sell at all under any circumstances, until he has a new permanent job. He wouldn't discuss buying or renting somewhere else, he just wanted to stay put. 

All the best to you too, I hope all works out for you

DepositSaver

Just realised I didn't answer this

Also I don’t understand what you
have engaged the solicitor for ? 

Not to obtain letters of administration? 
We were going to get the solicitor to obtain letters of administration as my brother didn't want to do it himself as he didn't know how, and I am a long way away and don't really have time, plus I would have preferred someone independent doing it so that my brother couldn't harass me for not doing it quickly enough. It is looking though as if I might need to do it myself after all. 

DepositSaver

doodling said:

Hi,

Until someone has applied for Letters of Administration (with will attached) then no-one can force anyone to do anything.  I recommend you get started on that because if your brother does it instead then life will get even more difficult.

I think you should be able to insure the house without getting letters of administration but I would be using a broker and make sure they understand the situation so as to ensure that you are covered.

Once you have letters of administration then you can start to sort out what to do with the house.  It sounds like the house will eventually be sold but it may be a long and tortuous path to get there - you will need legal advice for that.

Thank you, this is what I need to know, so I do need LoA before any forcing of sale can happen. My brother hasn't done it himself (I was sure he hadn't but double checked the gov.uk probate site). I don't actually have the will in my possession it's with the solicitor - I would hope that he can send it to me if I ask for it? Or would he need to check that my brother was ok with me having it? I might also need info from my brother for valuing the estate which might prove difficult as he's not talking to me.