Theft of assets belonging to an estate

pjs493

bobster2 said:

pjs493 said:

I’ve no idea why the police decided to investigate, but presumably they felt there was enough evidence, and/or the items taken were worth enough, to pursue the matter. My cousin is obviously relaying the story to me second and third hand so doesn’t have all the pieces of the story herself. I think Probate has been granted which is why the police are acting.

Police love a "slam dunk" - a crime that solves itself. Helps boost their performance metrics. If she has unwisely described how she acquired the items in a manner that meets the definition of theft - because she thinks she's "morally right" - she may have talked herself into a conviction.

Perhaps this is the case. Hopefully it’s straightforward. My cousin’s husband is very much playing Switzerland. His full sibling is trying to play things down, and the sister-in-question’s full sibling is furious with her for kicking up a fuss. It appears it’s all motivated by money and the theft was indeed a ‘money grab’ to fill her car with as much in valuable assets as she could while ‘the coast was clear’. I think for everyone’s sakes it’ll be best resolved as soon as possible so people can grieve without interference. I think everyone still hopes that she’ll see sense, return the goods, and the police will agree to drop the charges. But she seems to be holding firm. 

If it wasn’t so heartbreaking I’d be considering cracking the popcorn out. 

Spendless

So the police have charged her? Curiosity question though, in your early posts you mentioned that your cousin's husband told his step-Mum what his half sibling had done and in another post say he was surprised that his half sibling could manage the furniture by themselves. Had step Mum not noticed her items missing even the large/heavy item or had noticed it realised it had been stolen but not by whom. Just wondering if step daughter thought she was just creating a 'mystery' about where the items had gone and wasn't banking on a sibling telling? 

pjs493

Spendless said:

So the police have charged her? Curiosity question though, in your early posts you mentioned that your cousin's husband told his step-Mum what his half sibling had done and in another post say he was surprised that his half sibling could manage the furniture by themselves. Had step Mum not noticed her items missing even the large/heavy item or had noticed it realised it had been stolen but not by whom. Just wondering if step daughter thought she was just creating a 'mystery' about where the items had gone and wasn't banking on a sibling telling? 

Not sure if they’ve charged her. I mistyped and meant to say that I think the family hopes that the police will drop the matter if the items are returned. She has been ‘invited’ for an interview although I’m not sure if that has happened yet or is happening soon. My cousin wasn’t sure when I spoke to her last. 

The step-daughter went to the house when she knew it was empty (the step-mother was out making funeral arrangements with the funeral director). The items were noticed to be gone when the step-mother returned home. The step-daughter who took them wasn’t shy about letting people know she was responsible for taking the items. I suspect when the items were noticed to be missing, and having no indication that the house had been broken into, the step-mother made some calls to those with keys and that’s how the responsible party was identified and the theft admitted to. 

I was initially told the story, and have received periodic updates, from my cousin. We don’t speak very often, maybe once every couple of weeks on the phone (we live a few hours drive from each other). So I’m hearing this second or third hand and sometimes a couple of weeks since my cousin herself has heard an update (that’s why I’m not sure if the interview has happened yet or not). 

Malthusian

In my experience, when people in dispute have gone to the police, they tend to give the impression that the police believed every word they said and their opponent will shortly be behind bars, when what actually happened is that they spoke to a police officer who nodded sympathetically and gave them a case number and a business card. (Or whatever public servants call cards with the station's phone number on.)

The step daughter (my cousins sister-in-law) is apparently steadfast in her claim that she was within her rights to take what she did, but still admits taking them without consent.

I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't "admit" to anything. In the stepdaughter's head, nobody needed to consent to her taking the items because in some way or other they belonged to her already. A voluntary interview with the police could potentially end up as nothing more but the "she said" part of a "he said, she said" case. 

It's easy for us to be cynical about the police, but petty cases like these appear in the newspapers quite often so I wouldn't be that surprised if they charged her eventually - or if they didn't. The original question was "are the police likely to act" and the truth is we have no idea, it depends on too many unknowables, such as whether the stepdaughter incriminates herself in interview and the police's appetite for taking the case to court.

As for the siblings, if I was them I would be staying well out of it, not sticking my oar in or attempting to play mediator. 

pjs493

So I’ve finally, after many months, received an update on this. 

As a quick recap: The deceased husband and father had a Will in which everything was left to his (third) wife (he was widowed twice with two children from each marriage, the third wife has a child from a previous relationship, all ‘children’ are adults and most have children of their own). Before he died he offered gifts to his four children (a new car, money to carry house repairs, etc, some accepted the offer, others said they didn’t need anything, others suggested he put money into grandchildren’s JISAs instead).

One of the children of the deceased went into the house days after the death using a set of keys they had and took some valuable items from the house. They admitted taking the items without permission but denied breaking the law. The wife, as executor of the Will, felt obliged to report the theft to the police. The theft caused a bit of a family rift with siblings trying to convince the thief to return the items and attempted to smooth things over. 

After spending months avoiding being interviewed by the police by claiming to be busy or away on holiday, they were eventually interviewed. 

Unfortunately, the police have now decided it is a civil matter because the Will does not explicitly list the items that were stolen. They have ignored the other evidence such as the items being listed on insurance documents in the name of the deceased and his wife, the original purchase records, etc. The sibling who stole the items admitted to the police under caution to taking the items from the house and doesn’t deny entering the house with the intention of taking the items. They stated they took the items because they wanted them and don’t deny that they belonged to their father and by extension his wife (the step mother).

Everyone seems completely bemused as to why the police have decided this is a civil matter. The wife has received her own legal advice and was told by a litigation solicitor that it is quite clearly a criminal matter, and it’s basically an easy case because the thief admits taking the items and has them in their possession. The police seem to be basing their claim that it is a civil matter on the fact that parties involved are related to each other. They seem to consider this completely different to if a stranger had gone into the house and done exactly the same thing. 

Personally I think it’s ludicrous and it appears the police are only dismissing it as a civil case because they can’t be bothered to deal with it, despite it being an easy crime to prove and one would think and open and shut case for the CPS. Very frustrating for all involved and has only served to fracture family dynamics and cause people even more pain and grief. 

user1977

I can only reiterate my advice from six months ago. The police (and the CPS and every other agency involved in criminal justice) are overstretched, and the victims have other remedies available to them. Which also involve a lower standard of proof and probably swifter and more certain timescales.

RAS

Private prosecution?

kipsterno1

In cases of theft it is the CPS that make a charging decision. The police present the evidence and the CPS review it to see if the threshold is met. I would recontact the officer you have been dealing with and ask to see the CPS decision. 

user1977

RAS said:

Private prosecution?

What purpose would that serve? A civil case would be much, much easier and cheaper.

Pennylane

I can tell you now from experience that the Police will not do anything.  They will say it’s a civil matter.  Happened in our family sadly.