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Cloud Cuckoo Land

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  • Albermarle
    Albermarle Posts: 27,924 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper
    I just listened to the latest R4 "Money Box" which discussed this latest survey.  It did sound alarming but now I realise it was a bit of a marketing ploy and such a small sample of people I take it with a pinch of salt.

    We have a moderate income.  We have a caravan which provides us with holidays in Europe and the UK, we have two dogs and a car and run two cars.  

    I have always been frugal.  Eating out is a treat, we probably now have more lunches out than evening meals as it has become so expensive.  I would rather save into our "holiday fund" so that we have the money for lovely holidays in France.

    On occasion I have had to reduce the drawdown on my pension and no doubt I will have to do it again.  My fund has now more or less recovered so I am taking 3.8% again.  I manage to save enough each year to contribute the maximum allowed into my pension and now that I am no longer having to make up my pension using one of my husband's pensions we will be able to save more.  I do have two lots of reserve cash for "emergencies" and haven't yet had to withdraw cash from our modest ISA's.  

    Major capital expenditure over the past 5 years (I retired aged 59), having to replace our tow car (second hand obviously), a major repair to the caravan after an accident - caravan insurance would not cover - a hard lesson in not assuming the policy you have had for years will cover all eventualities, ALWAYS read the small print, and having solar panels and a battery installed - an excellent investment.  I did draw the cash out for the solar panels from the tax free lump sum availability from a small pension my husband has.  We have stopped drawing from that one until it reaches the value it was before we paid for the solar.

    We could downsize but are now finding that bungalow prices, due to demand and supply are fetching more than our large three bedroom detached house.  Also, I don't want to forego the solar - it is brilliant.

    Also, our hobbies and interests are "cheap".  I enjoy being outdoors in nature, so litter pick in local woods, we walk, help out at a Community cafe, my husband goes to the Men's Shed, we are members of our village environment group and I attend a number of U3A groups.  I enjoy cycling, reading and the piano.  None of those are expensive pursuits except the dogs (!) but they give back 100 times their costs, bless them.

    Thing about retirement - OK you don't have so much disposable income from working but you have so much TIME, no longer knackered and have better mental health, enjoy it while you can and keep healthy!


    I just listened to the latest R4 "Money Box" which discussed this latest survey.  It did sound alarming but now I realise it was a bit of a marketing ploy and such a small sample of people I take it with a pinch of salt.

    Maybe partly a marketing ploy for vested interests.
    However in the greater scheme of things ( and away from the bubble of an MSE Pensions forum) Millions of people who could actually afford to save more, are chronically underfunding their retirement nest eggs/pensions. So maybe a bit of shock/horror tactics might get some peoples heads out of the sand.

    Major capital expenditure over the past 5 years 

    It is worth noting that these PLSA figures include an annual figure for capital expenditure. This means it will be a higher figure if you are comparing it to your day day to expenditure, and paying for new cars, solar panels etc. out of a separate savings pot.
    For example we have two new(ish) cars. So I include the estimated depreciation on these annually, when calculating how much we really do spend annually. This item alone pushes up our annual expenditure by approx £5K, and then I also add around £1K for replacing white goods etc ( whether we actually do that or not, it is an estimated annual average )and £3K pa for house updates ( new carpets, decorating, new furniture, new windows etc ).
    Plus gifts to offspring to top up LISA's etc .
    Of course everybody can have their own view on how to calculate these items, but the PLSA figures do include them as part of their annual income figures.
  • I have a friend (retired) who creates a planning spreadsheet for several years hence.  For example, when she receives her state pension in 2025, she has allocated a proportion to paying for a dental plan for her partner (who did not visit her dentist during the pandemic and consequently lost her NHS dentist).  She retired super early, aged 50, and her and her partner lived on £10,000 for many years.  Had paid off mortgage and only runs one car.

  • Pat38493
    Pat38493 Posts: 3,334 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker


    We have a moderate income.  We have a caravan which provides us with holidays in Europe and the UK, we have two dogs and a car and run two cars.  



    This is a bit of an off topic side question so feel free to reply by DM if you like, but outside of the cost of the caravan and vehicle, how much roughly do you find your holidays cost per week?

    The reason I ask is that we are thinking of getting a caravan and tow car when I retire - I know the price of the capital items but I don't really have any idea how much it will change our annual holiday costs.  I am pretty sure they would go down as we currently are taking about 4-6 weeks of foreign holidays including cruises each year.
  • westv
    westv Posts: 6,456 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Pat38493 said:


    We have a moderate income.  We have a caravan which provides us with holidays in Europe and the UK, we have two dogs and a car and run two cars.  



    This is a bit of an off topic side question so feel free to reply by DM if you like, but outside of the cost of the caravan and vehicle, how much roughly do you find your holidays cost per week?

    The reason I ask is that we are thinking of getting a caravan and tow car when I retire - I know the price of the capital items but I don't really have any idea how much it will change our annual holiday costs.  I am pretty sure they would go down as we currently are taking about 4-6 weeks of foreign holidays including cruises each year.
    These caravans better not get in the way of my Lamborghini!  :D
  • Albermarle
    Albermarle Posts: 27,924 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 12 February 2024 at 11:23AM
    GenX0212 said:
    Some interesting statistics here (apologies if already posted): https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/analysis-of-future-pension-incomes/analysis-of-future-pension-incomes

    Here is a particularly telling summary:



    20% of high earners (>£56500) are not expected to achieve a moderate living standard. 64% are not expected to achieve comfortable. Therefore only 36% are.

    For average earners (£24000 - £34999) 49% are not expected to achieve moderate

    Interesting, but not too surprising info.

    However the fact that 50% of people on average wages ( around £30K) will still have a moderate retirement is better than I expected. Especially ( as discussed at length in this thread) the PLSA definition of moderate would be quite a happy level for many people.
  • GenX0212 said:
    Some interesting statistics here (apologies if already posted): https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/analysis-of-future-pension-incomes/analysis-of-future-pension-incomes

    Here is a particularly telling summary:



    20% of high earners (>£56500) are not expected to achieve a moderate living standard. 64% are not expected to achieve comfortable. Therefore only 36% are.

    For average earners (£24000 - £34999) 49% are not expected to achieve moderate

    Interesting, but not too surprising info.

    However the fact that 50% of people on average wages ( around £30K) will still have a moderate retirement is better than I expected. Especially ( as discussed at length in this thread) the PLSA definition of moderate would be quite a happy level for many people.
    Maybe the 2021 figures were more realistic than the scarily inflated 2024 figures recently released
  • sgx2000
    sgx2000 Posts: 524 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    On PLSA figues

    I am looking forward to driving around in my new Bentley
    for the 6 months I am not away in my Villa in Greece
  • zagfles
    zagfles Posts: 21,467 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Chutzpah Haggler
    GenX0212 said:
    Some interesting statistics here (apologies if already posted): https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/analysis-of-future-pension-incomes/analysis-of-future-pension-incomes

    Here is a particularly telling summary:



    20% of high earners (>£56500) are not expected to achieve a moderate living standard. 64% are not expected to achieve comfortable. Therefore only 36% are.

    For average earners (£24000 - £34999) 49% are not expected to achieve moderate

    Says it all! But I'm shocked the DWP are reporting the cloud cuckoo PLSA figures!

  • Nebulous2
    Nebulous2 Posts: 5,672 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Pat38493 said:


    We have a moderate income.  We have a caravan which provides us with holidays in Europe and the UK, we have two dogs and a car and run two cars.  



    This is a bit of an off topic side question so feel free to reply by DM if you like, but outside of the cost of the caravan and vehicle, how much roughly do you find your holidays cost per week?

    The reason I ask is that we are thinking of getting a caravan and tow car when I retire - I know the price of the capital items but I don't really have any idea how much it will change our annual holiday costs.  I am pretty sure they would go down as we currently are taking about 4-6 weeks of foreign holidays including cruises each year.

    Not me you are asking - and we haven't gone to the continent with our caravan since 2019, but I'd expect it to be considerably cheaper than flying abroad. It depends on when you are going, and again there is always the possibility to spend more. The holiday season in France is shorter than here, and caravan sites give special offers to get trade in outside the peak summer season. The main vehicle for that is buying an ACSI card. Expect sites to cost half what they do here after the summer peak is past. The last time I was there I did some detailed costs and concluded I could spend 2-3 months in France / Spain for £1500 - £2000 a month. That would be staying 3-4 nights on a site, moving 100 or so miles, and spending another 3-4 nights. Eating out 2-3 times a week and preparing the rest in the caravan. Including fuel and ferries. That's likely to have gone up a bit with inflation, but I'm convinced I would do a month on the cost of a moderately priced 10-14 day package holiday. 

    Blasting up and down the motorway with long journeys between sites, spending a lot on tolls and staying 1-2 nights then moving would be more expensive, as would eating out twice a day. 

    It's only worth buying a caravan if you intend to use it regularly. 

    To come back to the PLSA. I'm not at all convinced that people spending £59k a year have reduced their motoring ambitions, and are going to be running a 5 year old small car. I see a lot of retired people in these parts running Jags, Mercs, BMWs and Range Rovers. There may be an element of people being annoyed about increased motoring costs, and trying to prove to the researcher they are environmentally responsible, but thinking you will trade in the BMW for a second-hand fiesta is very different from actually doing it. 
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