Cloud Cuckoo Land

zagfles

westv said:

zagfles said:

LHW99 said:

zagfles said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

Everyone has their own idea what retirement will look like but I do not think the figures are that far off.  I disagree  that it is cloud cuckoo land to assume people can get there I can assure you it is perfectly realistic if you make saving for retirement as much a priority as other household expenditure through their working life preferably starting in their twenties.  Obviously that does assume you have a reasonable income to start with though and few if any gaps for redundancy/sickness.

It's not cloud cuckoo land to assume people can get there. Any couple with public sector DB pensions likely would with say a £20k pension each plus £10k state pension each. We likely would if we worked till state pension age (but there's no chance of that!)

It is cloud cuckoo land to tell people they need that sort of amount for a "comfortable" retirement. IMO.

And has been said before (here, ifnot this thread) it does depend on what you have been used to when working. Our household income only ever reached $50k for one year. Mostly it has been between £20k-£30k,

We put 2 children through uni on that and paid off a mortgage (in the end) having had to move 3 or 4 times to follow jobs.

So the fact we have a retirement income around that level isn't a problem for us. If you are used to having a much higher income when working, its almost inevitable you would need a larger retirement income to be able to regard yourself as "confortable".

But the PLSA aren't saying you need a level of income similar to when you were working. Or related to the amount you had while working. That might make some sense. 

They are saying you need specified amounts, and those amounts for most people will far exceed what their income will be, and far exceed what they spent while working after taking off children and mortgage costs.

That's why it's "cloud cuckoo".

Not quite, They have detailed exactly what you might need for each level of income and it's exact cost. Anybody can then amend the list as they see fit.

What's the point of it then? Just do your own list!

westv

zagfles said:

westv said:

zagfles said:

LHW99 said:

zagfles said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

Everyone has their own idea what retirement will look like but I do not think the figures are that far off.  I disagree  that it is cloud cuckoo land to assume people can get there I can assure you it is perfectly realistic if you make saving for retirement as much a priority as other household expenditure through their working life preferably starting in their twenties.  Obviously that does assume you have a reasonable income to start with though and few if any gaps for redundancy/sickness.

It's not cloud cuckoo land to assume people can get there. Any couple with public sector DB pensions likely would with say a £20k pension each plus £10k state pension each. We likely would if we worked till state pension age (but there's no chance of that!)

It is cloud cuckoo land to tell people they need that sort of amount for a "comfortable" retirement. IMO.

And has been said before (here, ifnot this thread) it does depend on what you have been used to when working. Our household income only ever reached $50k for one year. Mostly it has been between £20k-£30k,

We put 2 children through uni on that and paid off a mortgage (in the end) having had to move 3 or 4 times to follow jobs.

So the fact we have a retirement income around that level isn't a problem for us. If you are used to having a much higher income when working, its almost inevitable you would need a larger retirement income to be able to regard yourself as "confortable".

But the PLSA aren't saying you need a level of income similar to when you were working. Or related to the amount you had while working. That might make some sense. 

They are saying you need specified amounts, and those amounts for most people will far exceed what their income will be, and far exceed what they spent while working after taking off children and mortgage costs.

That's why it's "cloud cuckoo".

Not quite, They have detailed exactly what you might need for each level of income and it's exact cost. Anybody can then amend the list as they see fit.

What's the point of it then? Just do your own list!

It's a guide if that's what you want.

kimwp

I think it's good in that it gives an idea and what to consider for people that don't think about these things much. It can't show values for all the different lifestyles that people choose to live, that would be a very large number. 

Albermarle

enthusiasticsaver said:

@Albermarle Yes I know the retirement villages are heavy on the charges. I don't really worry about it being MSE (only that it is affordable). It is not a problem for my mum who has a very high pension because my Dad died young and she also now gets a pension from her second husband who died a few years ago.  She already pays high service charges on her apartment in the South East as it is in parkland.

What is it you dislike about the idea of living in one?  I wouldn't want to now as we are independent and in our early 60s but my mum is on her own and finds it lonely sometimes and at almost 90 is starting to find some tasks are more onerous for her.  She is also very sociable and loves bridge etc but has said to me in no uncertain terms I am not to put her in a care home if she starts having falls and cannot live independently anymore. Do you have a plan if you need help in later life? 

No plan, but for some reason I do not find the idea attractive, but each to their own.
Maybe its some class thing. Although I am 'comfortable' and had a middle class job and lifestyle, I do not have a middle class background, and these places ( the ones around here anyway) , always seem a bit posh for my liking.
I do not know if you ever watch Coronation Street, but Ken Barlow moved to one with his posh partner. It was a hive of bridge parties, badminton, cliques, back biting. 'traditional' views on life and purple rinses, and he was soon back to the cobbles quick time !

westv

Albermarle said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

@Albermarle Yes I know the retirement villages are heavy on the charges. I don't really worry about it being MSE (only that it is affordable). It is not a problem for my mum who has a very high pension because my Dad died young and she also now gets a pension from her second husband who died a few years ago.  She already pays high service charges on her apartment in the South East as it is in parkland.

What is it you dislike about the idea of living in one?  I wouldn't want to now as we are independent and in our early 60s but my mum is on her own and finds it lonely sometimes and at almost 90 is starting to find some tasks are more onerous for her.  She is also very sociable and loves bridge etc but has said to me in no uncertain terms I am not to put her in a care home if she starts having falls and cannot live independently anymore. Do you have a plan if you need help in later life? 

No plan, but for some reason I do not find the idea attractive, but each to their own.
Maybe its some class thing. Although I am 'comfortable' and had a middle class job and lifestyle, I do not have a middle class background, and these places ( the ones around here anyway) , always seem a bit posh for my liking.
I do not know if you ever watch Coronation Street, but Ken Barlow moved to one with his posh partner. It was a hive of bridge parties, badminton, cliques, back biting. 'traditional' views on life and purple rinses, and he was soon back to the cobbles quick time !

No car keys being all tossed into a bowl on a table? Seems too tame for me. LOL!!!!

NoMore

Tastiger said:

What I found thoroughly disheartening was last year it was £34k for a couple to meet moderate standards and I thought, "good we can just about do that". To then change it within a year to £43k - an increase of around 26% - puts it so far out of reach as to be demoralising. I have not noticed my outgoings rising by that amount. It makes me not wanting to engage with anything from PLSA. I have tracked my monthly expenditure for some time and know we don't need anything like £43k

Ignore it and figure out your own numbers to give you the retirement you want. 

enthusiasticsaver

Albermarle said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

@Albermarle Yes I know the retirement villages are heavy on the charges. I don't really worry about it being MSE (only that it is affordable). It is not a problem for my mum who has a very high pension because my Dad died young and she also now gets a pension from her second husband who died a few years ago.  She already pays high service charges on her apartment in the South East as it is in parkland.

What is it you dislike about the idea of living in one?  I wouldn't want to now as we are independent and in our early 60s but my mum is on her own and finds it lonely sometimes and at almost 90 is starting to find some tasks are more onerous for her.  She is also very sociable and loves bridge etc but has said to me in no uncertain terms I am not to put her in a care home if she starts having falls and cannot live independently anymore. Do you have a plan if you need help in later life? 

No plan, but for some reason I do not find the idea attractive, but each to their own.
Maybe its some class thing. Although I am 'comfortable' and had a middle class job and lifestyle, I do not have a middle class background, and these places ( the ones around here anyway) , always seem a bit posh for my liking.
I do not know if you ever watch Coronation Street, but Ken Barlow moved to one with his posh partner. It was a hive of bridge parties, badminton, cliques, back biting. 'traditional' views on life and purple rinses, and he was soon back to the cobbles quick time !

I don't really like the idea either at the moment but I don't watch Coronation Street so haven't seen how it was portrayed.  Some of my friends have parents in them but you are right in that they do seem very "middle class" and as my mum plays bridge (I don't) she probably falls into that category.  No purple rinse though but definitely traditional views on life (which we shut our ears to). Hopefully by the time we may have to consider one for us they will have moved on a bit. 

MarzipanCrumble

Part of the 'how much retirement income' depends if you are a saver or a spender - or if a couple a combo of the two.  Savers will maximise their income/minimise their spend and spenders will have a good time......spending.

I do think it makes people think - what is it I want, and from the spend info, maybe tailor their budget.

thriftytracey

I just listened to the latest R4 "Money Box" which discussed this latest survey.  It did sound alarming but now I realise it was a bit of a marketing ploy and such a small sample of people I take it with a pinch of salt.

We have a moderate income.  We have a caravan which provides us with holidays in Europe and the UK, we have two dogs and a car and run two cars.  

I have always been frugal.  Eating out is a treat, we probably now have more lunches out than evening meals as it has become so expensive.  I would rather save into our "holiday fund" so that we have the money for lovely holidays in France.

On occasion I have had to reduce the drawdown on my pension and no doubt I will have to do it again.  My fund has now more or less recovered so I am taking 3.8% again.  I manage to save enough each year to contribute the maximum allowed into my pension and now that I am no longer having to make up my pension using one of my husband's pensions we will be able to save more.  I do have two lots of reserve cash for "emergencies" and haven't yet had to withdraw cash from our modest ISA's.  

Major capital expenditure over the past 5 years (I retired aged 59), having to replace our tow car (second hand obviously), a major repair to the caravan after an accident - caravan insurance would not cover - a hard lesson in not assuming the policy you have had for years will cover all eventualities, ALWAYS read the small print, and having solar panels and a battery installed - an excellent investment.  I did draw the cash out for the solar panels from the tax free lump sum availability from a small pension my husband has.  We have stopped drawing from that one until it reaches the value it was before we paid for the solar.

We could downsize but are now finding that bungalow prices, due to demand and supply are fetching more than our large three bedroom detached house.  Also, I don't want to forego the solar - it is brilliant.

Also, our hobbies and interests are "cheap".  I enjoy being outdoors in nature, so litter pick in local woods, we walk, help out at a Community cafe, my husband goes to the Men's Shed, we are members of our village environment group and I attend a number of U3A groups.  I enjoy cycling, reading and the piano.  None of those are expensive pursuits except the dogs (!) but they give back 100 times their costs, bless them.

Thing about retirement - OK you don't have so much disposable income from working but you have so much TIME, no longer knackered and have better mental health, enjoy it while you can and keep healthy!

Universidad

thriftytracey said:

Thing about retirement - OK you don't have so much disposable income from working but you have so much TIME, no longer knackered and have better mental health, enjoy it while you can and keep healthy!

We all deserve this in our lives. Really, we should have it while working, too - otherwise what even is the point?

It seems that the recent social shift towards recognising the importance of mental health and work/life balance is not really matched by the ability or willingness to change much about it in the real world.