Children's Bonds - NS&I Scam - 1990's

ghol26

Hi,
The letter I received on 21/10/2004:
When this Children's Bond was bought 10 years ago you were named as the person who would have control of the Bond while the child is under 16.  The Bond reaches its 10th anniversary on 2/11/2004 and when its value will be £190,72 which is made up of 4 units.
If you would like the Bond to continue to grow in value you do not need to do anything.  It will automatically earn a new tax-free guaranteed rate of interest, equivalent to 4.45% pa compound including a fifth anniversary bonus if held for five years. The table below shows how much the Bond will be worth by then.

2/11/2005                                     £196.44
2/11/2006                                     £202.32
2/11/2007                                     £208.40
2/11/2008                                     £214.64
2/11/2009                                     £237.12
FIVE YEAR BONUS ADDED     £16.04

There is no need to contact us to continue your child's investment.  However, if you do decide to cash it in, please fill in the form overleaf and return it together with the certificate of investment.

I hope you will choose to keep your child's Bond invested for another five years. If you wish to buy more, please call us on 0845 964 5000 or write to us at the above address. We'll be happy to help.

masonic

This letter does seem to require some explanation from them, given what you have been told since.

ghol26

masonic said:

There's a few points that need clarification around terminology. It seems these accounts were renewed in 5 year intervals. If this renewal involved closure of the original account and reinvestment of the proceeds into a new account, then the original account could have shown as repaid. The product was also discontinued, at which point a number of things could have happened to the proceeds, several of which could have resulted in the original account being marked as repaid.

Since 2009 was mentioned in the letter as the end date, that seems to be the point at which nobody knows exactly what happened to the money. That date should be the focus of your investigation. Any bank statements available from then would be useful in eliminating possibilities. Your address in 2004 is likely where any paperwork would have been sent in 2009 unless you updated this with NS&I in the interim, so did you move in those 5 years or shortly thereafter?

It would be helpful to understand exactly what the letter from 2004 actually stated.

Hi, I moved to my current address in 1998 and the previous address was where my mother still lives so no paperwork has gone AWOL. The instructions to cash in the Bond as mentioned in their 2004 letter is on the back of the said letter and was not filled in. The account number on the letter is the same as is on the Bond certificate (which I still have) and the Bond number is also the same from 1994. 

ghol26

fwor said:

ghol26 said:

I received communication from NS&I in October 2004 showing how much the Bond was worth (after 10 years) and the value it would be in 2009.

Have you sent a copy of this letter to them, asking them to explain how this could be possible when they say that the bond ended at 5 years? It would seem to be incontrovertible evidence that what they are telling you is incorrect.

Hi, I sent a scanned copy of this via Resolver along with a copy of the Bond certificate and the letter I received in 1994 about repayment. The letter from 2004 stated I would need to send the Bond certificate and the reverse of the letter to cash this in. 

masonic

ghol26 said:

masonic said:

There's a few points that need clarification around terminology. It seems these accounts were renewed in 5 year intervals. If this renewal involved closure of the original account and reinvestment of the proceeds into a new account, then the original account could have shown as repaid. The product was also discontinued, at which point a number of things could have happened to the proceeds, several of which could have resulted in the original account being marked as repaid.

Since 2009 was mentioned in the letter as the end date, that seems to be the point at which nobody knows exactly what happened to the money. That date should be the focus of your investigation. Any bank statements available from then would be useful in eliminating possibilities. Your address in 2004 is likely where any paperwork would have been sent in 2009 unless you updated this with NS&I in the interim, so did you move in those 5 years or shortly thereafter?

It would be helpful to understand exactly what the letter from 2004 actually stated.

Hi, I moved to my current address in 1998 and the previous address was where my mother still lives so no paperwork has gone AWOL. The instructions to cash in the Bond as mentioned in their 2004 letter is on the back of the said letter and was not filled in. The account number on the letter is the same as is on the Bond certificate (which I still have) and the Bond number is also the same from 1994. 

From the letter, it looks like the same account is retained, and every 5 years they send an update with a calculation for the next 5 years.

That suggests a letter was expected at the beginning of 2009. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that one letter could have been lost in the post and never delivered. But there would have been others, including when the product was discontinued. Highly unlikely these too would not have reached either of you.

Most likely something happened to the account before the 2009 letter was due, but also possible for it to be between then and 2014. NS&I will say it was cashed in. You will say they lost the account or someone stole your money.

It is a shame that nobody noticed the updates had stopped coming for 15 years. That takes it beyond the time limit for the Financial Ombudsman Service and I do not think this type of claim is exempt from limitation if you took legal action. So I don't think you have any recourse unless you have evidence of theft.

Even if you could take it further, on the balance of probabilities, NS&I's explanation that it was cashed in using replacement paperwork is more compelling than than your explanation that they still have the money and have lost it IMHO.

ghol26

masonic said:

ghol26 said:

masonic said:

There's a few points that need clarification around terminology. It seems these accounts were renewed in 5 year intervals. If this renewal involved closure of the original account and reinvestment of the proceeds into a new account, then the original account could have shown as repaid. The product was also discontinued, at which point a number of things could have happened to the proceeds, several of which could have resulted in the original account being marked as repaid.

Since 2009 was mentioned in the letter as the end date, that seems to be the point at which nobody knows exactly what happened to the money. That date should be the focus of your investigation. Any bank statements available from then would be useful in eliminating possibilities. Your address in 2004 is likely where any paperwork would have been sent in 2009 unless you updated this with NS&I in the interim, so did you move in those 5 years or shortly thereafter?

It would be helpful to understand exactly what the letter from 2004 actually stated.

Hi, I moved to my current address in 1998 and the previous address was where my mother still lives so no paperwork has gone AWOL. The instructions to cash in the Bond as mentioned in their 2004 letter is on the back of the said letter and was not filled in. The account number on the letter is the same as is on the Bond certificate (which I still have) and the Bond number is also the same from 1994. 

From the letter, it looks like the same account is retained, and every 5 years they send an update with a calculation for the next 5 years.

That suggests a letter was expected at the beginning of 2009. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that one letter could have been lost in the post and never delivered. But there would have been others, including when the product was discontinued. Highly unlikely these too would not have reached either of you.

Most likely something happened to the account before the 2009 letter was due, but also possible for it to be between then and 2014. NS&I will say it was cashed in. You will say they lost the account or someone stole your money.

It is a shame that nobody noticed the updates had stopped coming for 15 years. That takes it beyond the time limit for the Financial Ombudsman Service and I do not think this type of claim is exempt from limitation if you took legal action. So I don't think you have any recourse unless you have evidence of theft.

On the balance of probabilities, NS&I has a stronger case than you do IMHO.

For sure I will check my box of old documents to see if I have any other communication post-2004. I must have. I just had the envelope with the Bond certificate in a secure box so I will post again if/when something turns up. Any further suggestions or help would be gratefully received. 

masonic

I think the best outcome you can hope for is that you find a more recent letter indicating the account matured into one with a different account number and NS&I is able to link that new number to your money.

ghol26

I have just located a later letter dated 21/1/2009.
It says:
When this Children's Bond was bought 15 years ago you were named as the person who would have control of the Bond while the child is under 16.  The Bond reaches its 15th anniversary on 2/11/2009 and when its value will be £237.12 which is made up of 4 units.
If you would like the Bond to continue to grow in value you do not need to do anything.  It will automatically earn a new tax-free guaranteed rate of interest, equivalent to 2.5% pa compound including a fifth anniversary bonus if held for five years. The table below shows how much the Bond will be worth by then.

2/11/2010                                     £241.52
2/11/2011                                     £246.00
2/11/2012                                     £250.56
2/11/2013                                    £255.20
2/11/2014                                    £268.28
Including five year bonus of           £8.36

There is no need to contact us to continue your child's investment.  However, if you do decide to cash it in, please fill in the form overleaf which must be signed by (myself and my daughter's names) and return it together with the certificate of investment.If this form is to be used at a later date and (my daughter's name) is then over 16 it must be signed by, and made payable to, (my daughter's name)

I hope you will choose to keep your child's Bond invested for another five years. If you wish to buy more, please call us on 0845 964 5000 or write to us at the above address. We'll be happy to help.

masonic

That's good news. This must be the last 5 year term because your daughter could not still have been under 16 when this one ended in 2014. It was not possible to renew once the child reaches the age of 16, but existing bonds could be held to the end of that 5 year term.

ghol26

That's right. My daughter was born in 1994.