Children's Bonds - NS&I Scam - 1990's

Section62

RiverStone11 said:

....

My sister and I recently discovered that we have old children’s bonus bonds from the early 90s. It turns out our mum never cashed them in, so we both decided to contact NS&I last week. We still have the original paperwork, so there’s no issue with our information being inaccurate.

This part of the letter -

We have issued many millions of replacement bonds over the years and occasionally the originals come to light some time later.

In addition once we are satisfied that the registered holder of a missing bond has been correctly identified repayments are made in the absence of the actual passbook or replacements).

- raises the possibility they might issue replacement paperwork for missing bonds, and that repayments can also be made without them.  In other words, the fact you have the "original paperwork" doesn't mean the bonds haven't been cashed in.

What is the reason for thinking they haven't been cashed in, other than having the original paperwork?

wmb194

RiverStone11 said:

Wow, I’m honestly speechless.

My sister and I recently discovered that we have old children’s bonus bonds from the early 90s. It turns out our mum never cashed them in, so we both decided to contact NS&I last week. We still have the original paperwork, so there’s no issue with our information being inaccurate.

I submitted a form to update my details after speaking with a very helpful lady from their customer service team. A couple of days later, my sister did the same. (To clarify, all we’ve done so far is request to update our information.) The customer service agent informed us that once this step was complete, we could proceed to request payment of the funds.

Fast forward a week, and my sister received a letter in the post. Here’s what it said:

“Thank you for your letter. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your enquiry.

I have now completed my investigations into the above holding and from the information in our computer files can confirm that this bond(s) has been previously repaid

Like many large organisations National Savings & Investments does not retain paper documents for too many years after a transaction has been completed. Indeed our only requirement for retaining historic document is so a satisfactory audit of our accounts can take place - there is no legal requirement for retain repayment documents permanently. Therefore, we retain sufficient information in our computer records to enable the status of individual bonds to be confirmed to customers.

I am sure you will appreciate that we cannot justify the costs to the tax-payer of sorting and maintaining the substantial amount of paper these transactions have generated over the years. Furthermore, such costs are even less defensive in view of the few requests we receive for information about bonds that have been repaid many years previously.

I should point out that the existence of the original bond(s) does not mean it is valid and has not been repaid.

We have issued many millions of replacement bonds over the years and occasionally the originals come to light some time later.

In addition once we are satisfied that the registered holder of a missing bond has been correctly identified repayments are made in the absence of the actual passbook or replacements).

I realise that you may be disappointed by my reply, I am sorry I cannot be of more help.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

I received a letter today. It said:

“Thank you for getting in touch.

Our records show the account numbers ###### is not valid.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

What do we do next? Something doesn’t feel right, and I don’t trust them one bit.

See my first comment upthread. These should have become five year bonds - presumably with new certificates - and then when their term(s) were up there was the option to reinvest or withdraw the money. The likelihood is that they were cashed in because NS&I is very good at keeping track of active Premium Bonds from a great many decades ago so I'd be surprised if it cannot keep track of its other accounts. It's annoying though that its data retention policies mean that it deletes everything when accounts are no longer active.

Section62

xylophone said:

Furthermore, such costs are even less defensive 

???? Defensible?

...and it now seems it was in a standard paragraph, rather than a one-off typo by a junior CSA.

ghol26

wmb194 said:

RiverStone11 said:

Wow, I’m honestly speechless.

My sister and I recently discovered that we have old children’s bonus bonds from the early 90s. It turns out our mum never cashed them in, so we both decided to contact NS&I last week. We still have the original paperwork, so there’s no issue with our information being inaccurate.

I submitted a form to update my details after speaking with a very helpful lady from their customer service team. A couple of days later, my sister did the same. (To clarify, all we’ve done so far is request to update our information.) The customer service agent informed us that once this step was complete, we could proceed to request payment of the funds.

Fast forward a week, and my sister received a letter in the post. Here’s what it said:

“Thank you for your letter. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your enquiry.

I have now completed my investigations into the above holding and from the information in our computer files can confirm that this bond(s) has been previously repaid

Like many large organisations National Savings & Investments does not retain paper documents for too many years after a transaction has been completed. Indeed our only requirement for retaining historic document is so a satisfactory audit of our accounts can take place - there is no legal requirement for retain repayment documents permanently. Therefore, we retain sufficient information in our computer records to enable the status of individual bonds to be confirmed to customers.

I am sure you will appreciate that we cannot justify the costs to the tax-payer of sorting and maintaining the substantial amount of paper these transactions have generated over the years. Furthermore, such costs are even less defensive in view of the few requests we receive for information about bonds that have been repaid many years previously.

I should point out that the existence of the original bond(s) does not mean it is valid and has not been repaid.

We have issued many millions of replacement bonds over the years and occasionally the originals come to light some time later.

In addition once we are satisfied that the registered holder of a missing bond has been correctly identified repayments are made in the absence of the actual passbook or replacements).

I realise that you may be disappointed by my reply, I am sorry I cannot be of more help.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

I received a letter today. It said:

“Thank you for getting in touch.

Our records show the account numbers ###### is not valid.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

What do we do next? Something doesn’t feel right, and I don’t trust them one bit.

See my first comment upthread. These should have become five year bonds - presumably with new certificates - and then when their term(s) were up there was the option to reinvest or withdraw the money. The likelihood is that they were cashed in because NS&I is very good at keeping track of active Premium Bonds from a great many decades ago so I'd be surprised if it cannot keep track of its other accounts. It's annoying though that its data retention policies mean that it deletes everything when accounts are no longer active.

Hi, I'm in exactly the same boat. Never cashed the bonds in and have the original paperwork and my daughter received the exact same letter in the post. I'm considering using Resolver. 

wmb194

ghol26 said:

wmb194 said:

RiverStone11 said:

Wow, I’m honestly speechless.

My sister and I recently discovered that we have old children’s bonus bonds from the early 90s. It turns out our mum never cashed them in, so we both decided to contact NS&I last week. We still have the original paperwork, so there’s no issue with our information being inaccurate.

I submitted a form to update my details after speaking with a very helpful lady from their customer service team. A couple of days later, my sister did the same. (To clarify, all we’ve done so far is request to update our information.) The customer service agent informed us that once this step was complete, we could proceed to request payment of the funds.

Fast forward a week, and my sister received a letter in the post. Here’s what it said:

“Thank you for your letter. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your enquiry.

I have now completed my investigations into the above holding and from the information in our computer files can confirm that this bond(s) has been previously repaid

Like many large organisations National Savings & Investments does not retain paper documents for too many years after a transaction has been completed. Indeed our only requirement for retaining historic document is so a satisfactory audit of our accounts can take place - there is no legal requirement for retain repayment documents permanently. Therefore, we retain sufficient information in our computer records to enable the status of individual bonds to be confirmed to customers.

I am sure you will appreciate that we cannot justify the costs to the tax-payer of sorting and maintaining the substantial amount of paper these transactions have generated over the years. Furthermore, such costs are even less defensive in view of the few requests we receive for information about bonds that have been repaid many years previously.

I should point out that the existence of the original bond(s) does not mean it is valid and has not been repaid.

We have issued many millions of replacement bonds over the years and occasionally the originals come to light some time later.

In addition once we are satisfied that the registered holder of a missing bond has been correctly identified repayments are made in the absence of the actual passbook or replacements).

I realise that you may be disappointed by my reply, I am sorry I cannot be of more help.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

I received a letter today. It said:

“Thank you for getting in touch.

Our records show the account numbers ###### is not valid.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

What do we do next? Something doesn’t feel right, and I don’t trust them one bit.

See my first comment upthread. These should have become five year bonds - presumably with new certificates - and then when their term(s) were up there was the option to reinvest or withdraw the money. The likelihood is that they were cashed in because NS&I is very good at keeping track of active Premium Bonds from a great many decades ago so I'd be surprised if it cannot keep track of its other accounts. It's annoying though that its data retention policies mean that it deletes everything when accounts are no longer active.

Hi, I'm in exactly the same boat. Never cashed the bonds in and have the original paperwork and my daughter received the exact same letter in the post. I'm considering using Resolver. 

Did you really not have any interaction with NS&I in the past 30 years? Did you keep it updated of changes of address? 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81100703#Comment_81100703

masonic

It is amazing what the passage of time can do to memories. If you've ever reminisced over past events with friends or family you've not seen in a long time, you'll probably have encountered differences in your recollections, sometimes very stark ones. I have been absolutely certain of details of memories from when I was much younger that turned out not to be true.

This seems to be a variation on the "found share certificates in the attic" scenario. Having made enquiries and been told that the bonds have been cashed in, there is little else that can be done. If they weren't cashed in by the rightful owner, then it's pretty unlikely but perhaps they were cashed in fraudulently. If so, then the trail will be stone cold. A fund was set up for those bonds that went unclaimed, and the previously quoted media article suggests that those who genuinely did not cash in the bonds could be linked to this, presumably because NS&I had a legitimate interest in retaining this data, as opposed to settled accounts.

eskbanker

ghol26 said:

Hi, I'm in exactly the same boat. Never cashed the bonds in and have the original paperwork and my daughter received the exact same letter in the post. I'm considering using Resolver. 

While it's understandable to wish to pursue this, don't be under any illusion that Resolver will help in any constructive way - all they do is act as a message broker, relaying information between the customer and the business, rather than actually adding any value.

ghol26

wmb194 said:

ghol26 said:

wmb194 said:

RiverStone11 said:

Wow, I’m honestly speechless.

My sister and I recently discovered that we have old children’s bonus bonds from the early 90s. It turns out our mum never cashed them in, so we both decided to contact NS&I last week. We still have the original paperwork, so there’s no issue with our information being inaccurate.

I submitted a form to update my details after speaking with a very helpful lady from their customer service team. A couple of days later, my sister did the same. (To clarify, all we’ve done so far is request to update our information.) The customer service agent informed us that once this step was complete, we could proceed to request payment of the funds.

Fast forward a week, and my sister received a letter in the post. Here’s what it said:

“Thank you for your letter. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your enquiry.

I have now completed my investigations into the above holding and from the information in our computer files can confirm that this bond(s) has been previously repaid

Like many large organisations National Savings & Investments does not retain paper documents for too many years after a transaction has been completed. Indeed our only requirement for retaining historic document is so a satisfactory audit of our accounts can take place - there is no legal requirement for retain repayment documents permanently. Therefore, we retain sufficient information in our computer records to enable the status of individual bonds to be confirmed to customers.

I am sure you will appreciate that we cannot justify the costs to the tax-payer of sorting and maintaining the substantial amount of paper these transactions have generated over the years. Furthermore, such costs are even less defensive in view of the few requests we receive for information about bonds that have been repaid many years previously.

I should point out that the existence of the original bond(s) does not mean it is valid and has not been repaid.

We have issued many millions of replacement bonds over the years and occasionally the originals come to light some time later.

In addition once we are satisfied that the registered holder of a missing bond has been correctly identified repayments are made in the absence of the actual passbook or replacements).

I realise that you may be disappointed by my reply, I am sorry I cannot be of more help.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

I received a letter today. It said:

“Thank you for getting in touch.

Our records show the account numbers ###### is not valid.

Yours sincerely

NS&I Customer Service Team”

What do we do next? Something doesn’t feel right, and I don’t trust them one bit.

See my first comment upthread. These should have become five year bonds - presumably with new certificates - and then when their term(s) were up there was the option to reinvest or withdraw the money. The likelihood is that they were cashed in because NS&I is very good at keeping track of active Premium Bonds from a great many decades ago so I'd be surprised if it cannot keep track of its other accounts. It's annoying though that its data retention policies mean that it deletes everything when accounts are no longer active.

Hi, I'm in exactly the same boat. Never cashed the bonds in and have the original paperwork and my daughter received the exact same letter in the post. I'm considering using Resolver. 

Did you really not have any interaction with NS&I in the past 30 years? Did you keep it updated of changes of address? 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81100703#Comment_81100703

Hi, I have only lived at 2 addresses and I received communication from NS&I in October 2004 showing how much the Bond was worth (after 10 years) and the value it would be in 2009. The original letter when I took out the Bond in 1994 stated they would be in contact when my daughter turned 21. This never happened. Nor did I cash it in, and the first thing my daughter knew of this was in October this year. 

fwor

ghol26 said:

I received communication from NS&I in October 2004 showing how much the Bond was worth (after 10 years) and the value it would be in 2009.

Have you sent a copy of this letter to them, asking them to explain how this could be possible when they say that the bond ended at 5 years? It would seem to be incontrovertible evidence that what they are telling you is incorrect.

masonic

There's a few points that need clarification around terminology. It seems these accounts were renewed in 5 year intervals. If this renewal involved closure of the original account and reinvestment of the proceeds into a new account, then the original account could have shown as repaid. The product was also discontinued, at which point a number of things could have happened to the proceeds, several of which could have resulted in the original account being marked as repaid.

Since 2009 was mentioned in the letter as the end date, that seems to be the point at which nobody knows exactly what happened to the money. That date should be the focus of your investigation. Any bank statements available from then would be useful in eliminating possibilities. Your address in 2004 is likely where any paperwork would have been sent in 2009 unless you updated this with NS&I in the interim, so did you move in those 5 years or shortly thereafter?

It would be helpful to understand exactly what the letter from 2004 actually stated.